Adam Larson: 00:05

Welcome to Count Me In! Today's episode features Laura Nespoli, brand strategist, founder of Meshin Movement, and author of Threads of Me and You. Laura opens up about her unconventional career path, the moment that awakened her pursuit of purpose, and how she's woven social impact and connection to everything she does. We discuss core ideas from her book, including what it means to pull on the loose thread, the challenges of following your gut amidst life's obligations, and why you don't have to tear everything down to find fulfillment. Laura shares advice on self reflection, overcoming limiting patterns, and building authentic connections both at home and in the workplace.

Adam Larson: 00:44

If you're craving more meaning or looking for practical ways to create positive change in your life and career, you don't want to miss this episode. Let's dive right in! Well, Laura, thank you for coming on the podcast. I'm really excited to chat with you, to talk to you about your book. But before we get into that book, I wanted to just talk a little bit about your journey.

Adam Larson: 01:07

How did you get where you started to where you are today?

Laura Nespoli: 01:10

Yeah, well, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. And my journey was a little bit undecided as I was going through it. Wasn't really intentional until I got to a transition point. So, in short, I spent most of my career working across the sales marketing spectrum, and I was always in a capacity of a strategic role in some kind, sales strategy or media strategy.

Laura Nespoli: 01:36

And I was always the person that was putting together the deck, the deck for the clients, the deck for our buyers. So strategic storytelling has always been a part of my work, and I never really had any intention in what I was doing in my life. Just kind of was doing what I thought I should be, and it took me from one step to another. People said, You would be great in sales, and so I did sales, not because I thought I liked it, and then I hated it. And they said, You would be great at, you could do this.

Laura Nespoli: 02:07

And I was like, Okay, I'll do that. So my whole career was kind of jumping from spot to spot, just building on the previous experience, which gave me more and more direction as I moved through it, and ultimately wound up as a brand strategist at a creative agency. I I love the work because I love storytelling. I love the strategic process. I love identifying what's the right way to connect something meaningfully with somebody else.

Laura Nespoli: 02:36

There's creativity behind it. There's a lot of problem solving, which I enjoy. But then I had this sort of wake up in the middle of the night experience where I had a vision for a meal experience, diners coming around a table, and there was a narrative of connection that wove it together. You know, actual things to unwrap and messages through the courses and customs that happen around the table, quotes and prompts and meaning woven into every element of the experience. And in my vision for this meal experience, I had, people who can pay for really high end, meaningful experiences, and it would pay it forward to an organization in need.

Laura Nespoli: 03:23

So every meal was a fundraiser or raising awareness for a nonprofit locally. So, it was not just connecting you to yourself, to the people around the table, to the universe through food and through quotes that would bring out that connection, but also creating community connection. And so, once I had that vision, that was my turning point. That was the lights went on and I thought, oh my God, what am I doing? And I started to think I just need more purpose, meaning, and connection in the work that I'm doing.

Laura Nespoli: 03:55

I love my job. I love brand storytelling. But it felt to me like it was missing an element of something. And that unnamed sort of something is what I started to chase. And I left my job and started my own company, Mesh and Movement, to do the same work, storytelling, brand and product storytelling, but pursue this social impact component alongside it and give me more freedom to do that.

Laura Nespoli: 04:20

But in starting that journey and starting with the professional side, it sort of became a rolling stone that got bigger and bigger. And it's, that's what led me to fully transforming my life and where I am now and all the work that I'm doing that I think will kind of get into layer by layer, but it, it ultimately led me to more meaning, connection and purpose in my life overall.

Adam Larson: 04:47

So that's beautiful that you've been able to have that journey because I think a lot of us can identify with just kind of going through the motions, especially in a corporate environment. You kind of get stuck where I'm the person who does this or I'm the person who does that. And it gets overwhelming. It can cause burnout. There's so many things we could talk about there.

Adam Larson: 05:05

But you have this idea in the book about pulling on a loose thread. Like right after you, the story that you just told, like it's kind of in the book, said you felt like you needed to change. My gut was telling me, go ahead and pull on this thread and see where it leads you. And I think, you know, I was I was reflecting on that as as I was reading that and it really stuck with me because I really feel like there's been times in my life where I felt like I needed to go pull that thread, but I was too afraid to, or I was, I was, I was scared and I couldn't, I couldn't quite get there. And so like, there's a lot to unpack there, but like where, where did that, where did that kind of imagery come from?

Adam Larson: 05:38

How does that, you know, cause I feel like everybody kind of feels that pull sometimes, but you know, whether it's resources or finances or family issues or something like that, we can't, we can't quite get to that thread yet.

Laura Nespoli: 05:48

Yeah, it's a great question. And the visual comes first from my, my strategy role as a When I'm searching through information, I'm following threads And I'm following the through line that connects the context of a business situation to the audience's needs, to what the company can And so the thread is that through line that you're always looking for in a strategy. And when I went through this process on the other end of like actually telling my story and sharing what I went through, I realized like following that thread was like following the thread of me. And then as I shared more and more, I realized that my experience, just as you said, people get to this point where you feel that pull. And I realized that's a really universal feeling and it's threads of me and you.

Laura Nespoli: 06:36

But when it comes to like, that was the visual of following the thread, but it was also extremely visceral. When I was feeling that feeling, something's missing. I feel something pulling me. I called it like a of longing, but sometimes it was like this angst y sort of feeling. And I've described it as if there was an invisible cord wrapped around my waist and it nodded at my belly button and there was a long rope in front of me pulling me somewhere and I had no idea where it was pulling me.

Laura Nespoli: 07:10

And I think our first inclination is to snip it, you know, like cut the tie, cut the thread, just forget it because it is terrifying. And I'm not gonna say that I wasn't scared out of my mind because I could sense that something was missing from my life. And I had everything that you mentioned, like family obligations, you know, like financial obligations. I have these responsibilities. I can't just go and chase something that's completely irresponsible.

Laura Nespoli: 07:39

And I think that's where, you know, my book makes the point that we don't have to tear our life down to get the life that we want. I think the way that I pursued it was more deliberate and with a great deal of intention, and it took time and sitting with the fear, sitting with the discomfort, having hard conversations around what's feasible and what's not. I mean, even today, Mesh and Movement is my company, and I do so much purpose work through Mesh and Movement, but a lot of that happens in early morning hours, and I now have a nine to five job because I have family obligations. And, you know, like I can't do the amount of purpose work I wanna do, and speaking work, and writing a book, I can't do all that and make enough money in the pipeline to keep everything afloat. I have a great job that I love doing in my nine to five right now, and maybe that'll change someday, but only when, you know, I think the point is, like, you don't have to tear it all down.

Laura Nespoli: 08:41

There is a way of reweaving the elements of your life to find what you're looking for, but it does require sitting in the discomfort and not making any rash moves too quickly and just following it and seeing where it takes you. Don't cut it off. Don't ignore it. Don't snip it at that loose end, but also don't just like, you know, totally pull the garment until it's completely on the floor.

Adam Larson: 09:05

Yeah. I appreciate that because a lot of times you'll hear these stories of, you know, well, I just dropped everything and I jumped in with both feet. And you're like, well, did you have somebody like angel investor who just gave you a bunch of money so that you could just do that? Because that's not practical for most of us. Most of us can't just drop a nine to five and do the thing we're passionate about.

Adam Larson: 09:23

Like you're not able to do that. So the fact that you're able to balance both of those things is an amazing testament that it can be done and maybe eventually you will be able to just do the one thing, you know, and I, but I think that's beautiful. And when you were talking about the rope around this waist, it made me think of the stories of like the, you know, back in the day when they would have the blizzards and you couldn't see anything and they would tie the rope around just so you could, everybody could get where they're going together. And sometimes when you're jumping into something new, kind of feels like you're in a blizzard because you can't see anything, but you're like trusting that the rope is still attached to the person in front of you who's getting you to where you need to go. And so like, what does that look like as you're kind of taking those first few steps?

Adam Larson: 10:02

And maybe it does feel like a blizzard, but you're like trusting that this I'm going where I need to go.

Laura Nespoli: 10:08

Yeah, good question. And, you know, I'll say when I first started Mesh and Movement, I had a business partner. He worked with me at the agency I was working at, and he believed in the meal experience idea and said, Laura, you don't need to start a nonprofit. Because, you know, my husband at the time was like, you can't just quit your job and, like, start to do this connecting meal experience. It's not feasible.

Laura Nespoli: 10:33

And he was completely right, and at the time I was resentful, but it was logical. But I had a business partner who believed in me. And that's something I talk about in my book is I had zero belief in myself. Like the idea of starting a brand and product storytelling consulting practice, I was like, I can't do that on my own. And my partner, Mike, believed in me and he said, you do this work all the time with our clients.

Laura Nespoli: 11:01

You bring people together around the table. Let's do the work that we do in the day to day, but let's pursue the meal experience as part of it. And so, I think, like, for anyone who's not sure that they can do it, borrow on belief is something I've said. Like, on the belief other people have in you. Find the right people to do that, one, because there were other people who were like, you're crazy, why are you doing this?

Laura Nespoli: 11:25

And there had to be enough courage to be able to say, I'm gonna take a chance on myself, but I'm gonna do it in a really practical and pragmatic way. And borrow on the belief other people have on you, and if it's not directly in your peer group, read about other people doing what you wanna do. Take lessons to believe from the path of my story is belief for someone else, I hope. But it is balancing that courage and belief in what's possible, overriding the fear that's gonna keep you contained where you are your whole life, and also not being you know, so irresponsible that you're not thinking through like, how do I do this in a way that my life is still my life?

Adam Larson: 12:08

Yeah. Yeah. Because it's really scary because you're taking steps that is changing things, but you'd also don't have to jump off a cliff either and hope that the wings work.

Laura Nespoli: 12:18

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a matter of time, taking time. You know, I think again, especially as we grow and we've gone through different phases of our lives, you hit a point when you feel like something is missing.

Laura Nespoli: 12:34

And, you know, my relationship, for example, like I got to a point I realized I'm bisexual, and I've never acknowledged that truth before. And once I did, I wanted to show up fully and authentically as who I was in my marriage and my relationship. And I shared that, and it took a long time for us to figure out how to make that work in the space of our commitment and what we have with one another, with my husband. You know, everything I was going through, this push for wanting more purpose in my life, more authentic connection, being true to who I was, It really challenged our relationship, which didn't at the time, neither one of us had the skills with how to be open and honest with one another. We'd been people pleasers our whole life.

Laura Nespoli: 13:20

We had always wanted to do what we should be doing. We were always so nice about everything. We didn't know how to handle hardship or challenge. And one of the best pieces of advice I got during that time was a friend of mine said to me, you know, give your marriage everything you have. You have to give this situation everything you have before you tear it down because you don't wanna look back and think, I didn't do every little thing I could have.

Laura Nespoli: 13:47

And I think like in today's world, we're very quick to think, this relationship doesn't work for me, I'm done. And I'm so grateful that I, you know, like gave it everything because we kind of stayed in a cycle of stasis for almost over a year where we just, we weren't making progress and I was frustrated and feeling stuck, but it took time and I was willing to give the time and, you know, we've never been happier. I mean, I have a whole new life inside the life I was living. That's because we just committed to making the change using the elements of the life that we already had.

Adam Larson: 14:29

Yeah. Wow. That's beautiful. I'm sure that journey was not a simple journey, that there was a lot of ups and downs and a lot of trial and error like, oh, this is not working. Okay, let's back off and try something else.

Adam Larson: 14:41

Because with any relationship, you know, that's what happens.

Laura Nespoli: 14:44

Yeah. Yeah. And I'd say the same goes for a career. Like, as we think about this for your audience, you know, like, I think the point is you don't have to tear it all down to get what you want. You, you can weave the elements of what's missing, whatever that pull is, you know, give it time, give it curiosity.

Laura Nespoli: 15:02

I talk about wanderlust in my book.

Adam Larson: 15:05

And

Laura Nespoli: 15:07

wanderlust, I describe as not wanderlust. Wanderlust is this thing, this compelling force to like search

Adam Larson: 15:14

the

Laura Nespoli: 15:14

outside world, but wanderlust is this compulsion to search within ourselves. And I think if you make it about like a really turn the exploration inside and within, then you realize like all of those gaps that you're feeling, no one is ever gonna fulfill it externally unless you're able to find it within yourself. So wanderlust is that curiosity and that drive to explore the inner workings of who you are. And I think if you have, if you keep that frame of mind on the process and you, even if you're feeling stuck in your job, even if you're feeling stuck in your relationship or stuck in a life circumstance that isn't working for you, if you turn the lens inward and get really, really curious about what this is doing to you, you'll find that you are creating movement, even though the circumstances might not be changing. There's movement that can happen within yourself, self understanding, discovery, and growth that happens.

Laura Nespoli: 16:15

And I think by giving that level of commitment and curiosity to who you are, that's how you're actually able to start creating movement and progress, even if the circumstances are staying the same.

Adam Larson: 16:27

Yeah. Well, and that goes in contrast of what happens with a lot of us, the word should. You know, you use that a lot in your book. You know, you even said in your career, people are like, oh, you should be doing this. Oh, you should be in sales.

Adam Larson: 16:38

You should be doing that. And even it like in our audience is more finance and accounting folks. We hear that word a lot. You should go this route. You should go, you know, you should start in this company and then you should do that and then you should do that.

Adam Larson: 16:50

But when you're in your career, like how how can we hear you should differently because it can be overwhelming because we feel like, oh, I have to go this route and I have to take this right and I have to go into the big four and then I have to move up into this career and I have to do that. But like not everybody's journey has to be the same.

Laura Nespoli: 17:08

Right. Yeah. It's a great question. I think it's about making the should something that comes from you. And so when you're feeling the shoulds, and when you're feeling that sense of this is the expectation for me, if you're asking where it's coming from, did this originate with me?

Laura Nespoli: 17:28

Am I doing this because I think I should, like, because I believe and know deep down, this is what I should be doing Or did this should come from, you know, my career, just the expectations of what other people are doing and culture and parents and society, you know? I think it's the source of the should that really needs to be what you examine. And I think again, that's why starting this entire practice with the ability to look within yourself and get curious and explore and start to be able to hear your own inner desires come to the surface, don't quiet them down. I think then you create the habit of listening to your own shoulds and you can better make the distinction between where those are coming from.

Adam Larson: 18:22

I like when you say that listening to your own shoulds, because when we read the stories of what other people have done, sometimes we feel like we have to follow that same route. And I think we miss the allegorical side of it where like, hey, just understand what it took for me to get there and then learn those lessons and imply that in your situation. And it's hard to see that because in, you know, in the in the rise of self help books and things like that, follow these five steps and you're going to do awesome. Well, these five steps don't fit in my world. How do we get past like, I think what I'm what I'm struggling with is as we're talking about this is like, that sounds great in theory, but putting it into practice is a whole another monster.

Laura Nespoli: 19:02

Yeah, you're actually like, you're touching on exactly why I didn't write just a memoir. And, you know, I I've read memoirs and I'm like, okay, what do I do with this? Great story. How do I make it work? I believe your story is your strategy.

Laura Nespoli: 19:22

And, you know, I firmly believe that our stories can inspire one another and we can learn so much from each other's stories. It creates a sense of connection. It can open our minds to what's possible. But I think when it comes down to actually doing the work for yourself, your story is the strategy to get there. And that's why I created a workbook in the back of the book.

Laura Nespoli: 19:46

You know, everything I do in my strategic process, in my role to help companies uncover pathways to growth, it's all about creating structures and frameworks and prompts and questions so that the story that they end up with is something that they feel ownership of, that they feel internally. It's not just marketing jargon that doesn't make sense for them. It's something they feel connected to. So I take that same principle and I apply it in the exercises I created to accompany my story. So that's with every chapter, there is a workbook chapter and the workbook has a summary of the takeaways from the story itself.

Laura Nespoli: 20:25

In case someone didn't wanna go read a chapter, do the exercises. Read a chap everyone's different. I, you know, I wanted to have options. But the workbook, I think, is like, it's hard to take somebody else's path and apply it to yourself. Really need but I do think the structures and the frameworks and the principles of it can be applied.

Laura Nespoli: 20:45

And that's why I created that option to be able to work through your own story and where does it come from and how do you challenge where your shoulds, your beliefs, your limitations, what are they doing to you and how do you rewrite those narratives? How do you use them to shape a path forward and help you identify where you want to go?

Adam Larson: 21:09

Yeah, I appreciate that you had a workbook because a lot of times when you're reading something that kind of moves you and it makes you think, sometimes we don't have the right questions to ask ourselves to kind of stop and think and push beyond it because sometimes we can just read the words and it just flows over us and we just let it go in one eye or out the other. We spend no time reflecting. One thing I appreciated about the book was, you know, the workbook, you know, you had that idea of like the patterns that are holding us back personally don't just stay in our personal lives. And when we're thinking about our professional lives, we sometimes separate personal and professional. Like these are two separate places and nothing affects it either way.

Adam Larson: 21:44

But you know, something happens with our parent or something happens with a child or, you know, we get into a car accident. Those things are going to affect how we interact with our coworkers. Or, you know, I remember one time I was getting real snippy with a coworker and she's like, what's wrong with you? And I was like, you know what? I haven't eaten today.

Adam Larson: 22:02

And she just started laughing. She's like, well, go eat something and then let's finish this because it's like, we don't realize that sometimes like something as simple as, hey, I didn't eat anything all day and I'm snipping at people because I'm hungry. Well, how about you just stop and go feed yourself and then, you know, you can kinda figure that out.

Laura Nespoli: 22:18

Yeah. We are who we are wherever we are. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have this metaphor that I like to use where I think about because the book is very much about patterns and unraveling the patterns and reweaving ourselves, I think about life as a spiral.

Laura Nespoli: 22:34

And so it's very tightly wound in the center of the spiral and that's where we begin. And the line that's moving, spiraling further and further as we move from the center, that line is like the repeating pattern. And if you were to move from the center of the spiral to the outside of the spiral, you kind of get tripped up over those same patterns. You get tripped over that line again and again, because the hang ups you have, the challenges you have, the perceptions about yourself, they come from a single source, your upbringing. You know, the experiences that shaped your life.

Laura Nespoli: 23:11

And you take that mindset, that Adam is Adam at home, he's Adam at work, you know, those challenges, they show up in the same places. And so I think about like those patterns that affect us, doesn't matter where we are, whether we're in our personal life or professional life, you know, we keep getting tripped up over those patterns. Hopefully with time, the whole point of that, you know, inner growth, that inner perspective is start to recognize your patterns. You're able to look at them and face them. And then I don't hope eventually we can all cure ourselves of our patterns, but I think it's more so the spiral gets more expansive as we move through life.

Laura Nespoli: 23:52

Maybe we don't trip over that line so much. We're able to step over it sometimes. Maybe our get up time is faster and we're less, less triggered by it. But these patterns encounter us again and again, because it's part of who we, how we were created and made from the beginning.

Adam Larson: 24:10

And I wonder if it's it's that you create a new pattern. So the old pattern that you were doing, let's say you kept tripping over this one line. Well, the new pattern is, is, hey, I created this bridge that helps me go over that one so I don't trip over it. But then but then once you create the bridge, suddenly something else trips you up and you have to constantly kind of having to do that that wanderlust that you were talking about. There was something new for me because I, know, I've heard of wanderlust.

Adam Larson: 24:33

You know, you talk about the person who just wanders. They're never focused. They're always doing that. But the wanderlust, that inward reflection, I feel like that's that's something that we lose sight of. And especially in a corporate environment that we're not encouraged to do that wanderlust, to to look inside and think, how can I make this situation better?

Adam Larson: 24:53

How can this pattern that we've done as an organization be improved? Because we seem to always trip up at this same spot. And it's like or they'll bring somebody in and bring a consultant in and we'll have this great conversation. And as soon as that person leaves, we do that same. We fall into that same pattern because nothing was actually done to actually help change the culture eventually.

Laura Nespoli: 25:12

Yeah. You know what? So, I mean, the word wonder, it's such a great word. You know, there's awe and curiosity and desire, and that's why wonder lust, I mean, to desire understanding, to desire that curiosity, I think it gives us permission to move past like the training example. Someone comes in, they give you a bunch of tools.

Laura Nespoli: 25:38

You're not going to change overnight just because you've been given the tool. It doesn't make it like, all right, now I know what I'm doing because patterns run so deep, and an organization is just a collection of everybody's patterns, and then we have patterns as a company. Everyone comes in with their individual patterns, and then as a company, we have patterns in how we've operated together for such a long time, and I think it, the only way to intentionally move beyond those limits and the patterns that we're stuck in is with intention. And that means being willing to look at the challenges, being willing to explore it for understanding and with such a desire to see beyond the discomfort of it. It has to push you beyond there.

Laura Nespoli: 26:29

And I think that reframe, like to explore and experiment, so much of us are afraid of making mistakes. And I think that holds us back from even looking at the challenges or looking at the mistakes. But if you reframe mistakes as trial and learning experiments, you know, man, we learned that thing. How are we doing? Are we doing a good job?

Laura Nespoli: 26:50

And it being okay and acknowledging doesn't happen overnight. So being willing and having enough desire to keep you looking so that as a team, can say, we're still struggling with this thing. We still get tripped up over this one part of it. I think that's key to addressing that part.

Adam Larson: 27:09

I think another part of this unraveling that you talk about, it requires us to kind of be vulnerable and open. You know, you bring up a story about your mom, you know, which you didn't have to bring in there, but like, I feel like a lot of times unraveling is very uncomfortable. You know, we already talked about the analogy of like being in a blizzard, you know, knowing that this is unraveling, but like, it's crazy. Like if anybody who's, you know, who's knit or done crocheting, that yarn gets gets all tangled up. Trying to unravel that is like a nightmare.

Adam Larson: 27:41

And so sometimes our lives are kind of like that balled up piece of yarn and trying to unravel it. Like you have to go under things, you have to go over things. Sometimes there's a knot that you have to figure out how to get out. And so like, what's your advice to people who are like they're they're they're they're they're listening to this conversation and they're like, oh my gosh, I am so overwhelmed because I feel like my unraveling is this massive ball of yarn that would feel feels like it could never be unraveled.

Laura Nespoli: 28:06

My advice for them is more that scene with my mom and that situation with my mom, that it really was my complete undoing. After confronting childhood trauma and that entire situation, it kind of brought the walls down and forced me to see the relationship in a way I was avoiding it for so long. And it had me I went to a complete emotional breakdown. I couldn't stop crying. And I was crying off and on for weeks.

Laura Nespoli: 28:39

And that emotional breakdown was one of the greatest gifts of my life. It was like liberation. I didn't have to try and hold it, hold in that messy ball and not let anyone see the mess of that balled up yarn. Yeah. I was, you know, I was working on projects with people and I would get on and just this simple, hey, how are you?

Laura Nespoli: 29:00

And I could not help but cry. I'd be like, I'm going through, like, it just like was a mess because I was in an emotional breakdown. But by showing up in that way and being real and saying, I'm going through this horrible situation and I'm so sorry, I can't help but cry when you ask how I'm doing because I'm really having a hard time. That actually created such a true connection with the people I was working with. And I was freelance for this team at the time.

Laura Nespoli: 29:33

And I noticed that my ability to work actually it let me show up as a leader in my career in a way I never imagined. It was like once I let go and showed up fully as myself in a real way and was able to say I'm going through really hard stuff and it helped me push through the hard stuff, I had to really work hard to pull myself out of that. I showed up with authenticity and vulnerability. And in return, I realized that it opened people up to be more vulnerable with me. So at the time I was freelancing with this team because I was still mesh and movement exclusively, but I continued to work with that team.

Laura Nespoli: 30:15

And now when I needed a full time job again, because I realized I needed more steady income to support our family obligations, I reached out and said, you know, can I go full time? Because these people like, have embraced, you know, they show up with realness too. And that was one of my biggest learnings from that experience. And I started speaking at the time about story as a tool for strength, resilience, and team connection because I witnessed it. I witnessed when you actually are able to be a little bit more vulnerable, show someone that messy ball of yarn in your hand.

Laura Nespoli: 30:50

It's embarrassing and you think like, oh my god, I should not be talking about this because it's so taboo in our culture to not answer how are you doing with, I'm fine. Like anything but I'm fine is like off limits. When you actually do that, the person, and this is scientifically proven, it's called a vulnerability loop. And I've studied this now after studying the science of story for personal development, when you show up with vulnerability, the person on the receiving end receives that as a signal and it actually signals to their brain that it's okay to be vulnerable with you. And that ignites trust, belonging, and connection.

Laura Nespoli: 31:28

And so it actually strengthens teams because everyone actually shows up with a little bit more realness. And when you're, when you're doing that, it goes back to that challenge we talked about. You have a consultant come in, they highlight all these problems, and then no one wants to talk about it. But if you have a practice of sharing with vulnerability, it makes it okay to talk about the problems. It makes it okay to show up and say, That didn't work.

Laura Nespoli: 31:53

You know, I dropped the ball on this. Or, I'm, you know, sorry about doing it this way. And it just shows you show up with more realness and actually that is then proven to improve creativity. It's improved to decrease burnout. It's like proven to increase innovation within teams.

Laura Nespoli: 32:12

So, there's scientific evidence of how this level of realness and vulnerability and authenticity, just by showing up and sharing your story and sharing what's going on in a respectful way, what it can do for not just the individual, but teams themselves.

Adam Larson: 32:27

And kudos to that team for for kind of stepping up to the challenge of this person's being totally open and honest with me. Instead of just being like, well, Okay, well, how about we do this later, Laura? I don't take your tears somewhere else, which a lot of times is what happens in that type of environment.

Laura Nespoli: 32:46

There are there is no greater group of people that I can imagine working with.

Adam Larson: 32:50

Yeah. And it's difficult because in corporate, in business environments, you know, there's a lot of times not the space for that type of moment. We're afraid whether it's whether it's we're afraid of backlash, we're afraid of being fired. We're afraid that, oh, if I'm if I'm open and honest like this, someone's going to weaponize it against me. You know, there's so many different fears because of traumas that we've all been through.

Adam Larson: 33:14

There's I'm sure there's been a moment in everybody's life where you may have shared something and the next, know, that person's throwing it back in your face. You're like, Hey, I shared that because I was trying to be open with you and now you're just going to throw it back at me. Like, that's not cool.

Laura Nespoli: 33:26

Yeah. I've shared practices on how to actually ignite this in a healthy way within teams. And I borrowed it from the very thing that helped my husband and I get our relationship to a place where we knew how to address conflict and challenge with one another. So starting with that side of things, it was my therapist at the time that I was working with. She said, end every day with three prompts.

Laura Nespoli: 33:51

One, what went right today? Two, I appreciate you for. And three, what do I want and what do we want? And I realized in doing that practice, at first it was uncomfortable. Both of us weren't sure to what level we could share, which is why I think the appreciation aspect is really important.

Laura Nespoli: 34:09

When we started the practice, I was very resentful, and I was angry, and I was just waiting for him to, like, pick up, you know, what I was putting down and what I was asking But I had to find something to be appreciative for in our end of day conversation. But over time, we committed to doing it as a ritual. And over time, it created a space where we both felt safe enough and the level of sharing increased. And he even said to me, when we first started doing this, I felt like I had to give you a right answer because our relationship was in such a precarious spot. I felt like if I didn't say the right thing, like I was messing up.

Laura Nespoli: 34:49

But over time I realized there is no right answer. The right thing to do is just be honest. With more time, because it was a ritual, we learned that it was a safe space and we could open up more and more and talk about harder things as needed. Sometimes like the what do I want was, I wanna go out to dinner on Friday night, or like, I don't wanna cook dinner on Friday night. But then there were other times where it was like, you know, I want you to do this thing for me, or, you know, I wanna share this with you.

Laura Nespoli: 35:17

And I've applied that when I do workshops with teams. I have done this at conferences where I have someone just giving prompts like, what's the hardest thing you've ever done? And I say to them, you don't have to say like the deepest hardest thing if, you know, you define your boundary. If the hardest thing you addressed this week was making dinner on Tuesday night, talk about it. Because with time, you're gonna create that habit.

Laura Nespoli: 35:46

But just a handful of story sharing prompts like, what's the hardest thing you had to do this week? If you end the week with, what's the hardest thing you had to do? One thing I'm appreciative for from the team. What do I want out of next week? And how can my team help me do that?

Laura Nespoli: 36:01

And everybody coming to the table with that as we round out the week. That again, it's something that can create a habit and create safe space. And over time, you'll start to see the way the pattern changes in the way that you relate to one another.

Adam Larson: 36:16

I like that approach of, you start small. Like it doesn't have to be the most deepest thing. Well, when I was seven years old, you know, like you don't have to go into that. I mean, if you feel comfortable doing that, sure. But it can just be as simple as, you know, like what was the hardest thing?

Adam Larson: 36:30

Well, the hardest thing was my five year old woke me up at 4AM and did not go back to sleep. And I had 10 meetings that day and it really sucked. That was my hardest day this week, you know, like being able to just share that moment, that small, it's like it may not be the most vulnerable part of ourselves, but it's that slowly opening up to being able to to trust those with you with this information saying, hey, this is where I'm at. Yeah. So they can feel comfortable.

Adam Larson: 36:55

And what about to the cynic who is like, well, I'm not going to share with anybody, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because there's always that one person who who just doesn't want to like because it almost feels like, hey, if you're going to share, I'm going to share. Let's all drink the Kool Aid together and it's going to be a great time. And there's always that person who's like, well, I don't want to participate. Like, what do you say to the leader who's trying to get people to open up and try to be there?

Adam Larson: 37:16

There's always that person who just doesn't want to share at all.

Laura Nespoli: 37:19

Yeah. I mean, one of the biggest things I think with any transformation journey is you can't change anybody else. You can only change yourself. And so if you go into this with the expectation that you're doing this so that the other person is going to change, but you're not willing to look at what it's doing to you, like, you know, I think that's where we get hung up on whether or not someone else is affected. If you go, I mean, the book is Unravel Your Limits, Weave Growth from Threads of Me In You.

Laura Nespoli: 37:50

Like, the intention is, you know, it has to come from you. And I think throughout my journey, biggest, one of the biggest takeaways was I am responsible for how I feel in my life, and I'm only responsible for how I feel in my life. I can't take responsibility for somebody else's well-being or happiness outside of my children. I can show up with responsibility to my relationship, but it's ultimately my husband's responsibility to manage his own growth and progress. Anything beyond that is me trying to control him, and that's not my job.

Laura Nespoli: 38:25

So I think for people in the team, if they're not willing to budge, again, they probably have lifelong patterns that are far beyond the work. They started somewhere deeper, and it is not the responsibility of their manager or their professional team to fix the patterns that they themselves are responsible for that go way back, you know? So I think that sense of like, I'm responsible for myself, I can do what I can to share and help and show up as a teammate and do my part. But ultimately, if someone doesn't want to move, it's on them.

Adam Larson: 38:59

Yeah. And as a as a another guest of this podcast has said, you know, you have to be to be a better leader, you have to start by leading yourself. And exactly what you're saying. Like it's all about like, hey, where's my journey where I'm at? I can only be open and share what I can.

Adam Larson: 39:14

And if I can't and I can't be responsible for somebody else. And a lot of times that's, I feel like we get caught up in, but so and so doesn't feel good and like worrying about everybody else's feelings and that people pleaser mentality, which is not healthy and really can drive you nuts in the end.

Laura Nespoli: 39:31

Yeah. Yeah. I had three conversations with colleagues this week because we had a full team off-site and they were expressing to me things that they had experienced from other past employees that are no longer with us that, I mean, they're here on this earth, but they're no longer at the company.

Adam Larson: 39:48

Yeah.

Laura Nespoli: 39:49

And those interactions had them staying up all night with stress and anxiety. And, Oh my

Announcer: 39:54

you

Laura Nespoli: 39:54

know, like these things that, there's small interactions that we hold onto, but I think, you know, from those stories I took away, if you realize that you weren't responsible for that person's upset, they were responsible for their own upset, you know, then you're able to kind of let those things go easier. It's a big part of the learning process for me was getting, letting go of codependency mindset. I'm not responsible for other people's feelings. I'm responsible for my own. Yeah, that concept had never occurred to me before I went through this journey.

Laura Nespoli: 40:25

But man, is it a big takeaway?

Adam Larson: 40:27

It really is. My goodness, Laura, this is this has been an amazing conversation. I encourage everybody to check out Laura's book. There's gonna be a link in the show notes so that you can go there and read this book. It's amazing.

Adam Larson: 40:40

It's really impacted me. This conversation has been huge and I just thank you thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.

Laura Nespoli: 40:46

Adam, thank you so much. I love having real talk. So thank you. I appreciate it.

Announcer: 40:53

This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast, providing you with the latest perspectives of thought leaders from the accounting and finance profession. If you like what you heard and you'd like to be counted in for more relevant accounting and finance education, visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.