Adam Larson: 00:05

Welcome to Count Me In! Today's episode features Pete Leibman, author of High Performance Habits for Consultants, Lawyers, and Advisors. Pete draws from his background as a competitive athlete and an executive in the NBA to reveal what it really takes to perform at your best without burning out. We dive into lessons he learned from top athletes and senior executives, debunk the myth that working longer always leads to better results, and discuss practical habits and routines that drive sustained high performance. If you want to achieve more without sacrificing your well-being, this episode offers actionable strategies and inspiration to help you become a stronger advisor and build a remarkable life and career.

Adam Larson: 00:47

Let's get started. Well, Pete, I'm excited to have you on the podcast today. We're going to be talking about your book that you wrote. But before we get there, you know, you've had quite the journey yourself, and I wonder if you could take a little bit time walking through that journey and maybe you can highlight some experiences along the way that started shaping about how you see what it actually means to perform at your best.

Pete Leibman: 01:13

Yeah, well thanks for having me. Excited to chat. And I think I've always been fascinated with this question of how do you perform at your highest level? It stems largely from my background as an athlete. So I grew up a competitive basketball player.

Pete Leibman: 01:26

I played basketball in high school and for a year in college. And then after college, I worked in pro sports. I worked in the front office for the NBA's Washington Wizards. And that combination of being an athlete and then having access to the world's greatest athletes influenced a lot of my thinking and the behaviors that I then tried to bring to my own career and that I now share through speaking and writing. And, you know, I think one of the, one of the examples that I would share right off the top is, I worked in pro sports and one of the greatest lessons that I learned from that experience is the importance of a pregame ritual.

Pete Leibman: 01:57

You think about the world's greatest athletes, they don't just show up at their field of play and start their game ice cold. They have a deliberate, personalized routine that they go through before the game to get into their optimal state, physically, mentally, psychologically. And that's a lesson I think that a lot of leaders would benefit from taking into their career as well. If you are working in a corporate role, I mean, have two fifty game days a year, and the way that you start the day sets the tone for the rest of the day. So a question that I would share with listeners, again, a takeaway from pro sports is what is your pregame ritual?

Pete Leibman: 02:34

Do you have what I call a peak pregame ritual, which is a deliberate, intentional morning routine, something you do before work, typically thirty to sixty minutes to sharpen your focus, to warm up your body, to get in the right spirit. So that when that workday begins, you're locked in and ready to operate at your best just like a pro athlete is with the way that they start their game.

Adam Larson: 02:54

It's funny that you say that because it's, you know, when you watch pro sports, you know, everybody has their rituals, you know, the Leibman James with the powder in the air when he claps his hands together and and, you know, Steph Curry has his like his like special, three point shots that he takes from different locations, you know, and you see those things. But that's just the fun things that you see. But beyond that, you know, they're you know, they're doing all these other rituals, preparing themselves mentally and all that stuff. And I don't think you ever people ever really talk about that for this, for the business world because it's like, oh, these are two different things, but you still have to get yourself mentally prepared for whatever, you know, you have a board meeting you have to do, you have a presentation this day, you have to do things to prepare yourself, but I don't think people ever presented in that fashion before.

Pete Leibman: 03:38

Yeah, I'd agree. I mean, I think, look, for most people, the morning is stressful, it's scattered, it's maybe it's mindless. You're getting to work and you're already kind of off. You're stressed out and the day hasn't even started. And again, to kind of go back to that lesson from pro athletes, so why do they go through this routine?

Pete Leibman: 03:55

Think one of the key reasons is when that game begins, there's so much they can't control. They're competing against other elite athletes that are trying to throw them off their game. So they're controlling what they can control. They can control what they do before the game. So when they start, they're locked in and they're ready to operate at their best.

Pete Leibman: 04:12

And again, the takeaway for someone in a corporate job is you can't control what's gonna happen during the day. There are so many factors that are outside of your control, but you can control the way you start the day and you can show up at work in the right state of mind so that you're more likely to be able to think with your best clarity, to be resilient, to handle those inevitable challenges, and be ultimately able to perform at a higher level.

Announcer: 04:37

Yeah. And I think a lot

Adam Larson: 04:39

of times that's when people are trying to perform at a higher level, they kind of grind themselves down over time. You know, you write about like this in your book when you've seen it from the inside. And maybe we can talk

Announcer: 04:48

a little bit what that looks like because a lot of times people, they,

Adam Larson: 04:51

they like, hey, I want to do better. So they grind themselves down and they, they get burnt out after a while. And like, what does that look like and how do you start saying, okay, this isn't working?

Pete Leibman: 05:00

Yeah. Well, I guess where I first really saw that I worked in executive search. I worked at one of the top search firms, Heidrick and Struggles. Phenomenal firm. We would be retained to help leading companies identify, recruit, and develop exceptional leaders.

Pete Leibman: 05:14

So CFOs, CEOs, global managing partners, other critical positions. You see the mindset that a lot of people have. I saw that internally, I saw that with clients we advise, with candidates we recruited. So many people buy into this concept, what I call this work longer myth, that, Hey, the longer you work, the better you're going to perform. I'm going to outwork everybody.

Pete Leibman: 05:36

No one's going to work longer than me. And that sounds great in theory. Of course, hard work is part of the equation, but there is a point where it becomes counterproductive. And I think what a lot of people neglect is what they have to give up in order to start working those extremely long weeks. You to cut back on sleep, to cut back on exercise.

Pete Leibman: 05:55

You have to cut back on personal hobbies and time with friends and family. These are essential activities. Again, they kind of feed into being able to help you show up at work at your best every day. A lot of people, I think, grind themselves down. It's ultimately motivated because people want to do well, but they'd actually perform better by I think being a little bit more diligent in terms of the way they use their time and manage their energy.

Pete Leibman: 06:21

Again, they could show up day after day after day and be able to operate at a high level.

Adam Larson: 06:26

Yeah. I, as you were saying that, it kind of made me think of like, you know, in a lot of times to go back to your pro sports analogy, you know, somebody works hard, they're grinding away, but they may not be taking care of their body. And that's how, you know, injuries can sometimes happen. And I wonder if like the injury in sports is like the burnout in like your professional work where you kind of you're forced to stop because you have no other choice because your body just won't let you move forward.

Pete Leibman: 06:52

I think it's a great analogy and it's, you know, we're looking kind of physical, mental, it's all connected. And, again, like to be very clear, you know, you have to work hard. I mean, that's a part of the equation. I'm not saying anything against that, but you know, in order to be able to operate at your best and bring your best focus and be able to weather the inevitable challenges you face, you need to be able to show up in the right state of mind. If you're just working 20 fourseven, you know, you're going to grind yourself down.

Pete Leibman: 07:22

Again, you know, people can compensate. You know, we live in a world where there's so much caffeine that's consumed and sugar and energy drinks. Why are people doing that? It's because they're wearing themselves out. And then what's it doing?

Pete Leibman: 07:36

It's just artificial energy. It makes you more irritable. It makes you more anxious, Makes you oftentimes less pleasant to work with. And again, I think there's a there's a better approach.

Adam Larson: 07:46

There's got to be a better approach, especially and it's hard sometimes when the culture's like that, you know, this work longer myth that you talk about. But it's but it's kind of like the the like, hey, I'm going to be the first in and the last out, but you don't see what it is doing to you every day. When and when there's a high pressure environment, how do you balance that, especially if everybody around you is like, I'm here all the time. You're like, I gotta go to watch my kids play because that's important to me and I'll be better tomorrow because I did that.

Pete Leibman: 08:13

Well, look, it's easier said than done. Mean, you have to be realistic about that and not everybody is gonna like and support a desire perhaps to prioritize other parts of life, unfortunately. I think the best thing that you can do is to try to lead by example. I think if you can demonstrate that your approach can actually be more effective, I think that that can be contagious for people who work around you, for you, people you report to. They can see, hey, maybe there is actually a different way to approach this.

Pete Leibman: 08:46

I don't have to be on 20 fourseven. I don't have to burn myself out to reach that next level. So I'd say one thing is leading by example, and then I think number two is to not apologize for it. Have to have the courage and the confidence to be able to, you know, work and live in a way that works best for you. And if you're ultimately producing results, that's what's going to matter the most.

Pete Leibman: 09:08

So if you can produce more value in less time and with less stress, I think people will respect that even if they have a different approach.

Adam Larson: 09:16

Yeah, I agree with that. You know, a lot of times you kind of have to lead by example, especially if you're not the one driving culture. You can help drive culture from what you're doing. We can only affect the things that are like we can only affect the things that we're in charge of as opposed to worrying about what everybody else is doing, which is hard sometimes when everybody else is doing one thing and you're like, well, I kind of want to go this way. That's not easy.

Pete Leibman: 09:38

Yeah, it's definitely a challenge. I mean, you have to kind of try to shape the culture from whatever position you're in.

Adam Larson: 09:44

Yeah. So, you know, your book is called Strong Advisor, you know, high performing high performance habits for consultants, lawyers, advisors, and, you know, you know, finance and accounting professionals are consultants. They can be advisors to the teams. And so maybe we could talk a little bit about what does it mean to be a strong advisor?

Pete Leibman: 10:02

Yeah, so in the book I introduced two terms, a longer advisor and a stronger advisor, and there's a vast set of differences in terms of their beliefs and their behaviors, but it can really be boiled down to, I think, the following: a longer advisor, they're striving to work as many hours as possible without considering the value that they're producing during each hour. A stronger advisor, on the other hand, strives to produce as much value as possible during each hour that they work. And that fundamental difference ends up manifesting a variety of different behaviors. There's also very different beliefs. But I think this concept of a stronger advisor, you know, you're trying to produce as much value as you can during each hour and you're trying to build a remarkable career and a remarkable life.

Pete Leibman: 10:49

You know, that longer advisor many times, maybe they're still successful professionally, but they're doing it at the expense of the rest of their life. So again, I think there's different approaches, but the stronger advisor is trying to focus on the quality of their hours versus the quantity.

Adam Larson: 11:06

Yeah. Well, that you might have the same result, but it's different cost to the person itself. And also eventually, like the stronger advisor may not work as many hours, like especially as a consultant, you work hourly, but the quality of what you're getting will bring people back for more business in a sense, would think.

Pete Leibman: 11:24

Yeah. And I would say, look, when you think about high performance, you know, going back to this, this concept of this work longer myth, you know, reality is high performance doesn't come from longer hours. Comes from stronger hours. If you look at the highest performers in any field, they absolutely work hard, but they don't necessarily work longer than their peers. Many times they actually work less.

Pete Leibman: 11:44

They're better about managing their time. They're better about managing their energy. They show up at work ready to operate at their highest level. They don't need two to three hours to kind of get into the day. They're ready to attack it from the start.

Pete Leibman: 11:55

And that's how they're able to, again, many times produce more value in less time.

Adam Larson: 12:00

Yeah. So, I like your concept, your stronger cycle concept that you bring in the book, where it comes down to two things: focus and renew. You know, for someone who has never thought about that in workday terms, maybe you could explain that size of the equation for that.

Pete Leibman: 12:14

Yeah. So the stronger cycle, that's a framework that I talk about. We're really talking about, you know, what habits drive high performance and why those habits are essential. And it can be boiled down to these two steps, focus and renew. Focus largely your first, your habits out at work, kind of the way you go through your workday.

Pete Leibman: 12:29

Renew largely first your habits outside of work, but it's also a way to think about the way you move through the workday itself. And I think for a lot of people, you know, again, kind of getting sucked into this kind of work longer, always on culture, People are just operating with no breaks in sight throughout the day. They're working to kind of power through for hours at a time. And what many people don't realize is you'll actually do higher quality work. When you try to focus for one period of time, you bring as much energy and attention as you can, and then you take a short break.

Pete Leibman: 12:58

You renew your energy. And it's a much more enjoyable way to go through the day. It's a much calmer way to go through the day. And again, this concept of focus and renew is a framework for the workday itself and then also the way you think about work and life.

Adam Larson: 13:13

So, when you're saying that, it's not just like, Hey, focus for the whole workday and then renew after the workday. You're saying break it up because obviously you can still burn yourself out even in an eight hour workday.

Pete Leibman: 13:25

Yeah, absolutely. I talk about in the book the concept of what I call a peak performance block. That's a distraction free period where you're going to focus as intensely as you can on one task, typically for thirty to ninety minutes. You're going to close out your inbox, you're going to put your phone to the side, you're going to disable notifications, and you're going to just focus as best you can on whatever you've deemed to be important for that period of time. So it's during those times you're going to do your most meaningful and highest quality work.

Pete Leibman: 13:58

You work on that peak performance block and then you take what I call a boost break where that could be three to five minutes. It doesn't have to be a long period of time, but it's a strategic mental pause. You're gonna stand up, maybe move around a little bit, grab some water, just take a short break, and that's gonna allow you to come back and hit that next block with better focus, more energy, clearer thinking. Such a more effective way to go through the workday than just trying to stay focused for six hours at a time. I mean, we just can't do that.

Pete Leibman: 14:29

We're not robots. Know, kind of this ebb and flow, focus, renew, focus, renew. It doesn't have to be a very rigid interval in terms of how long you focus and how long you renew, but it's an overall concept that you're working on something and then you take a short break. And I think one other hidden benefit of that approach is, and I know this myself because this is how I work, like when I know I'm going to take a break in an hour, I can bring better focus to that next hour because I know a break's coming Versus if there's no break in sight and I'm just trying to power through for three, four, five hours at a time, it's much harder to stay focused because there's no break in sight. You know, there's no time to recover.

Pete Leibman: 15:10

So, it's a different way to go through the workday that I think a lot of people would benefit from.

Adam Larson: 15:15

So, how do you protect yourself against those boost breaks becoming doomscroll breaks? And it suddenly being longer than three to five minutes or however long you need to kind of like boost that up because suddenly you're getting your serotonin from whatever you're scrolling or doing.

Pete Leibman: 15:29

Yeah. Well, look, I mean, you're, if you're not using the break strategically, I mean, it can end up working against you, right? It could deplete your energy. It can scatter your attention all over the place. So I think ideally, you know, it's actually probably best if it's a tech free break where you're just standing up.

Pete Leibman: 15:45

I mean, go for a short walk inside or potentially outside, and it can be five minutes, you know, grab some water, just move around a little bit. And we spent so much time sitting or, you know, many of us have standing adjustable desks now where we're just stuck in one spot all day. I think it feels good physically also just to move around a little bit throughout the day. Nothing too intense, but yeah, you bring up a good point. You have to use that break wisely or it kind of defeats the purpose.

Pete Leibman: 16:12

It's got to be a break for your brain. And you know, if you're using it just to scroll social media or do something else, it's going to scatter your attention. It's really defeating the purpose.

Adam Larson: 16:22

Yeah, because a lot of times when you say break, that's what people automatically jump to. Like, Okay, what have I been putting off? Oh, I want to look at this. I want to look at my personal things and look at those things. But the purpose of the boost break is actually boost the not to scatter things and make you more stressed or think about something else.

Pete Leibman: 16:38

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you got to use it wisely or it defeats the purpose.

Adam Larson: 16:42

So, you know, you dedicate a significant part of the book to things like sleep, exercise, nutrition, and you make the case that, you know, these aren't wellness extras, actual performance drivers. I think we've all heard the excuses. We've probably all said the excuses ourselves like, Hey, I don't have time for that. Like, I'm too busy right now. I'm in busy season.

Adam Larson: 16:59

There's no time for me to take these extra things. What would you say to that person who has all those excuses?

Pete Leibman: 17:04

I'd say you're too busy to not make these areas a priority. Saying you're too busy to make sleep a priority, that you're too busy to exercise, that's really like saying you're too busy to stop for gasoline because of how far you're trying to drive. Sleep, exercise, nutrition, again, time with friends and family, that's gonna give you the energy to be able to handle the busy season, to be able to weather the pressure, to be able to show up at your best so you can think clearly and be more resilient. Again, I've heard that too. I mean, it's something that people say, but at the same point, there are plenty of people who are extremely busy who are making these areas a priority.

Pete Leibman: 17:41

So I think it's something that people really have to be diligent about. It isn't just about wellness or balance or a lot of these terms which can come across as kind of soft. This is fundamentally about operating at your highest level. It's about thinking clearly. It's about bringing good judgment.

Pete Leibman: 17:59

It's about not making errors. It's about being able to weather that pressure. So, you know, it's not something to think about when times are slow. It's something that becomes even more important during those busy times.

Adam Larson: 18:12

And for those who still might be convinced, maybe you can talk about why, what is the importance of sleep and exercise nutrition for our bodies when we're trying to be at our highest performance?

Pete Leibman: 18:22

Well, I mean, provides a lot of benefits. I mean, I'm not a doctor, so I won't be able to explain physiologically what's happening as articulately a medical expert could, but mean there's a tremendous amount of research that shows that if you're starting the day, and I think people can just think about this logically, if you start the day and you didn't get a good night's rest and you're tired, you're already behind and the day hasn't even started. So I think fundamentally we all get it that, you know, starting the day with more natural energy is gonna allow you to operate at your best. I could say for myself, you know, it is a priority for me in all these areas, but the rare times when it's not, I mean, feel it and, you know, I can still get by, but I can't operate at my highest level. I'd also say you're probably not going to be as enjoyable to work with, right?

Pete Leibman: 19:08

We've all had times where we're tired or we're just kind of worn out and, you know, we've worked for or with people, you know, that are tired and, you know, those are often the people that are not the most pleasant to be around at work. Think, you know, fundamentally we all recognize that these areas are important. It takes effort, you know, it takes discipline. You you are going to have to sacrifice, you know, staying up late watching TV or other areas that people can get caught up in, but you have to think about what you're gonna get on the other side, that you're gonna be able to operate at a higher level and handle pressure better without resorting to the artificial sources of energy that people often do, coffee, energy drinks, sugar, etc.

Adam Larson: 19:52

Yeah. Well, that's, you know, you can read other studies on what that does to your system if you continuously do that every day as well.

Pete Leibman: 20:00

Yeah. Mean, it's going to catch up with you in one way or another, whether it's weight gain, anxiety, difficulty sleeping, depression. I mean, it's just it's a cycle. So you might think that you're you're able to get by without it, but it's going to catch up with you one way or another.

Adam Larson: 20:16

Yeah. So, another framework that you build out in the book is called POWER, which is an acronym. It's a pyramid, but it starts with purpose.

Announcer: 20:24

And so why, like, let's talk a little

Adam Larson: 20:26

bit about those steps and why does purpose sit at the foundation?

Pete Leibman: 20:30

Sure. So the Power Pyramid is another high performance framework I share in the book, and this is really about how to build the habits and the mindset to sustain performance. Where again, the stronger cycle is more about the what and the why, this is more So about the this is about, you know, how do you make a change last? How do you achieve a big goal? And the bottom of this framework, like you said, it's a pyramid, is purpose.

Pete Leibman: 20:51

You know, it really comes down to the reason why something is important to you. I like to say where there's a why, there's a why. So whatever the change that somebody's trying to achieve is, whatever the goal is, whether they wanna reach the next level of their career or whether it's you know, a more kind of practical thing like being able to change a certain behavior, you know, there are gonna be setbacks, there are gonna be challenges, there are gonna be moments where you kind of question consciously or subconsciously why am I doing this, right? Why am I going to bed early when I could stay up late? You know, why am I getting up early to do a difficult workout?

Pete Leibman: 21:28

Why am I, you know, working on a difficult task when I could procrastinate and work on something that's a little bit easier? It comes back to that why. Why is it important to you? So I think you always have to be clear, again, whatever the change or goal is on why something matters, know, why it could be something like, you know, why it's important could be because you really believe in the mission of your organization, what your company is trying to achieve. It could be because you want to lead by example and you want to be a positive role model for your colleagues or for your friends or for your family.

Pete Leibman: 22:04

But I think that is the ultimate source of motivation when you have a strong purpose for whatever you're trying to change or achieve. It's not the only factor, but that's the reason it's the foundation because it all starts with that mindset. And I think a lot of people, when they're thinking about what they want to change or what they want to accomplish, all they think about is, okay, what do I need to do? What do need to start doing? What do need to stop doing?

Pete Leibman: 22:26

And they underestimate the impact that mindset has because when those challenges surface, what's going to keep you going? You're going to have to come back to that reason why you started in the first place.

Adam Larson: 22:35

Yeah. When, when you, when you mistakenly do your boost break and you start doom scrolling, what's going to bring you out of that and remind you, hey, this is why I'm doing this. Let me put that down and actually do some boost performance as opposed to, well, it's fine. I'll be do it next time. Like what is going to be that thing that kind of drives you out when when it gets hard?

Adam Larson: 22:55

Because it's not easy to make changes to our behaviors, to our thought patterns, to our processes. It's a process. As much as people say they like change, it's not fun and nobody really wants to change, but it's good to change sometimes.

Pete Leibman: 23:08

Yeah, I agree. And I think another thing I'd share, mean, know, I think about a lot of the leaders I've worked with and the highest performers I've dealt with, you know, sports executives, they're so clear on their purpose. So clear on why they're doing something. They're very intentional. I think the clearer you are on why you don't need willpower when you're clear on why something matters.

Pete Leibman: 23:31

You don't need willpower to exercise. You don't need willpower to stay focused on a task because you have your eye on that prize. What are you doing this for? What's the reason? And that reason for me could be totally different than you or someone else.

Pete Leibman: 23:45

But when you know why you're doing something, you don't need willpower. You do it because you're intrinsically motivated to achieve that goal for a reason that matters to you.

Adam Larson: 23:55

Yeah. So let's think about this. You know, somebody's listening to this conversation. They're like, Okay, let me pick up Pete's book and read it. I really want to make a change.

Adam Larson: 24:05

But they're but when they look at everything around them, they realize that the team or the firm they're with is still operating in that first in, last out type of culture. What do you do when that environment around you is so rewarding the behavior that the opposite behavior of what you're trying to do?

Pete Leibman: 24:21

Again, I think it comes back to some of the things you talked about. You can you can control what you can control, right? And you can't unfortunately, there are going to be people who are going to have that longer advisor mentality and that think you need to be on 20 fourseven and think exercise is not necessary. I know there's a tremendous amount of research that shows that it has mental and psychological benefits. So focus on what you can control.

Pete Leibman: 24:47

And I think a lot of that is what you're doing outside of work. So you're really making sure that whatever you're doing outside of work is helping you show up at work at your best the next day. And then you try to lead by example. You demonstrate that your approach actually helps you get better results in less time and with less stress. That's what people are going to care about the most.

Pete Leibman: 25:09

If you're ultimately producing results, that's number one. So I think that should be the number one priority. And don't deterred and don't feel like you need to apologize. And I don't feel like I need to apologize to somebody if I take an hour to get back to them on an email versus taking a minute. You know, in a lot of places, people feel like they have to apologize for making time to exercise or for saying they're overloaded and they don't have capacity for a new project.

Pete Leibman: 25:37

Again, I think you have to have some courage and confidence and be willing to work differently and not just follow the herd. And I think not everybody is going like or support that, but people will respect it when you live and you work with intention. I think a lot of times those are the people that end up ascending into leadership roles because they were willing to operate a little bit differently.

Adam Larson: 25:56

So what does that look like day one of changing, of turning around to saying, Hey, I'm going to lead my life with intention. I'm going to work with intention. What does day one look like? Because somebody might be saying, Hey, I'm overwhelmed. I'm a little burnt out.

Adam Larson: 26:08

I want to make that first step. But what does that what does that first step look like?

Pete Leibman: 26:11

Yeah, it's a great question. Mean, I think start small. You know, I always encourage people, and this would be a challenge for anyone listening to this, is to identify one specific behavior, what I call a stronger habit of the month. What is one specific behavior? Something that you want to start doing or stop doing every day.

Pete Leibman: 26:28

And it could be something small. It could be meditating for ten minutes a day. It could be going to bed fifteen minutes earlier. It could be focusing for the first thirty minutes of your workday without interruption. Something small, you know, decide what you want to do.

Pete Leibman: 26:43

And then you put all of your effort into that one behavior for the next thirty days. Whenever that starts to feel automatic, whether sooner or later than thirty days, then you work on the next behavior. And it's a gradual step by step approach. You know, your life and career are not going to change overnight, But if you follow that approach and you work on one change at a time in a relatively short period of time, can start stacking these wins and that's how you get better and better and better month after month. It's sustainable.

Pete Leibman: 27:13

There's no willpower required. You're working on one change at a time. It's not going to be overwhelming. And I think once you start getting some initial momentum and some initial wins, then it becomes like a game like, wow, what else can I change? What else can I improve?

Pete Leibman: 27:27

How far can I take this? You know, what am I capable of accomplishing? And every time you get a win, it just builds more confidence and more momentum to add on the next change. And you look back three, six, twelve, twenty four months down the road and you're on a totally different trajectory.

Adam Larson: 27:43

Yeah. Well, in theory, if you do a change every thirty days or so, that's 24 changes that you're making your life in two years. That's that's a lot of that's that's pretty big when you when you take the small approach and then broaden it out.

Pete Leibman: 27:58

Absolutely, right? Look, live in a society where, you know, everybody's promising a quick fix and, you know, we can, you know, just snap our fingers and Uber picks us up in four minutes, right? I mean, that's not how behavior change works, so there's certainly a patience that's required, but these small habits add up quickly. Like to share an example a lot of times when I speak where, you know, I ask people, Hey, if you invested a $100 into an index fund every day, you know, high growth index fund that gets you in an 8% average annual rate of return, You do that today, not much is gonna change, but what's that gonna be worth if you do a $100 a day every day for the next twenty five years? And you know, people can reflect on that.

Pete Leibman: 28:38

I mean, ultimately that turns into over $2,600,000 just a $100 a day. Know, because our habits add up, they compound over time and this works for good habits and for bad habits, but it's these small changes. You know, you could take two people, similar talent, similar effort, they make a few small changes, they're going down one path and man, lives and careers look totally different. So I'd say take it one habit at a time and in a short period of time, you're going to notice some pretty significant results.

Adam Larson: 29:07

That's amazing. Well, Pete, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I encourage everybody to check out Pete's book. We'll put a link in our show notes. If they want to go deeper, you know, we can reach out to Pete on LinkedIn.

Adam Larson: 29:18

We'll have those links in there as well and to any other ways to contact to connect with us. So let's keep the conversation going. Let's keep encouraging each other to not be as burnt out and to kind of lead with intention.

Pete Leibman: 29:29

Yeah. Well, thanks so much for having me, Adam. Was a lot of fun.

Announcer: 29:33

This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast, providing you with the latest perspectives of thought leaders from the accounting and finance profession. If you like what you heard and you'd like to be counted in for more relevant accounting and finance education, visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.