Ep. 353: Dr. Christiane Schroeter - Petite Practice to Powerful Presentations: Storytelling for Finance
Welcome to Count Me In. In today's episode, we're joined by Christiane Schroeter, professor at Cal Poly State University, a TEDx speaker, and a passionate advocate for the power of storytelling. Christiane takes us on her journey from Germany to The United States, sharing how embracing a just go for it mindset led her from academic pursuits to the TEDx stage. She impacts why storytelling skills are essential for finance professionals, how to build your confidence as a presenter, and introduces her Petite Practice approach, demonstrating how small, consistent steps can lead to extraordinary results. So whether you're getting ready for a big boardroom presentation or seeking to make data more engaging, Christiane offers tips for connecting with audiences, managing nerves, and translating complex information into meaningful stories.
Adam Larson:Ready to transform the way you communicate financial insights? Stay tuned for practical insights you can apply today. Well, Christiane, so excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast, and you have a very unique story where you've, you've, you started your academic life in Germany, came over The U. You get a, you have a doctorate in health economics. You've been on TEDx.
Adam Larson:That's quite a road. So I was wondering if we could just kind of, how did all that happen? Maybe you can tell a little bit more about your story.
Christiane Schroeter:Well, I think, first of all, thanks so much for having me, Adam. I really appreciate being here. And audience is going to be a really fun one. So maybe to how this all happens, to answer this, like with my motto in life is I usually just think just go for it. And that's how things happen.
Christiane Schroeter:I'm not somebody that just sits on the sidelines and thinks, oh, I should do a TEDx point, a TEDx talk at some point in my life. I'm just like, let's just do it. And I think that's really when I think back. That's how a lot of things in my life happened. I was like, let's just apply for foreign exchange programs.
Christiane Schroeter:And how about The United States? And then I stood at the airport and I was like, oh my gosh, this is real. And I think so many times we are overthinking decisions. And because we're overthinking decisions, we never take that step and actually do it. And I'm the person I'm like, I'm just going to go for it because I already have the know in my hands.
Christiane Schroeter:So I'm just going to try and go for it. You know, it's like just progress always beats perfection.
Adam Larson:Yeah, it really does. I appreciate that perspective. Now, you know, we're going to talk a lot about storytelling, you know, because that's a lot of where your expertise comes in. And, know, a lot of our listeners are very knowledgeable. They have the insights they understand.
Adam Larson:But when you stand up in front of a room, an executive team, something happens, you know, help me understand what's going on there. And why is there a gap so common, especially specifically with people who are focused on like numbers and, and finance?
Christiane Schroeter:Well, I think the main idea really is that we are not even used to this storytelling anymore to where we watch somebody in person stand in a room. And that is frequently because we want to look at our phone or our laptop and do the multitasking. And I actually really force people like very directly, like most of the time I know their name and I'm like, oh, would you mind maybe putting your phone away or closing the laptop lid or, let's just like focus on this right now. And then I of course involve audience as well. So when you stand in front of a room, I do the whole gaze around and look where there are so that I can kind of connect with them and adjust my energy accordingly.
Christiane Schroeter:But at the same time. I think that really makes a difference that I don't talk to an audience. I rather just talk to one person in the audience and I really connect with that one person and make sure that they are following along and then it kind of spreads on like a fire, like the energy just goes on. And I think that is sometimes the trick that you feel you can just go to a meeting and completely tune out and clean up your email at the same time or whatever you're doing on your phone, right? It's like playing a game or something.
Christiane Schroeter:I don't even know. So I think that the trick is that the presenters very aware that this what happens and then kind of picks up on them very gentle way.
Adam Larson:Yeah, they really do. And it's always hard, especially like when you're in a virtual format, it's hard to connect with an audience because you can't see them In person is obviously a lot, a lot easier. What does it kind of take to get somebody to like to, to gain that confidence? Like, hey, I know this material, you know, cause you're telling me a story where you were on the TEDx stage and like you lost your confidence screen, you didn't see anything and you just had to speak and you have to like say, Hey, I can own this stage. So how do you, how do you get from one place to the other?
Adam Larson:Cause that's not, it's not very easy at all.
Christiane Schroeter:Yeah. In fact, I didn't have a confidence monitor at all at TEDx. I chose not to use one at all because I think that the confidence monitor, if it would stop, would really trip you up, right? So for me, the fact that I didn't even want to rely on technology was setting me up to know the material so well that if I were to lose my confidence, I practiced so many times I would have just to go on with it, right? And I think that's sometimes the trick.
Christiane Schroeter:So when you stand in front of your audience, the confidence really comes from practice. I know that sounds really hard, but you have to practice and you can start small. You can start with your immediate family or with your neighbors or with your, you know, small group of colleagues or some group that you're part of, you know, whether that's like some club or people you see on a regular basis to play games with. And then you gain confidence from there because these are people that already know you. So then that next step going to a group of people that you don't know yet it's just going to be a little bit harder, but you already have that confidence to keep you going.
Christiane Schroeter:So I call this the petite practice my business, The small step. So you gain that small step confidence and that will propel you to take the next step. It's like a little bit of a ladder. You know, you start there, go to the next one, you go to the next one and then maybe ultimately stand on the stage at TEDx. But it's not like, oh, I'm here.
Christiane Schroeter:I don't know how to present. And here is TEDx. It's more really that you have to work your way getting there and the confidence then will come along the way. It's a little bit like each prong will give you a little bit more of a boost in confidence. Like I can do this.
Adam Larson:Yeah, definitely. So maybe we can, dig into that Petite Practice Method a little bit because that's an interesting name. It doesn't necessarily make you feel like, hey, this is like, but I like that Petite Practice means like small steps or something like that. So maybe we can talk a little bit more about what that means.
Christiane Schroeter:Yeah, so it is small, steps that ultimately reach your big goal. And that big goal is something that you completely have on your mind, maybe always had on your mind, but you need to actually verbalize it and then you need to sit down and break it down into action steps and ideally take that first action step today. And that is so important. So I'm not going to choose that action step for you. I basically I'm the coach and I say, all right, so how can you start working on this today?
Christiane Schroeter:And it could be really, really tiny small like Petite means small in French. You don't have to, if you say I'm going to write a book, you don't have to write a whole chapter today. You could just start formatting your screen so that it makes it really easy for you to pick it up To write in the future, or you could just clean a desk because you don't even have a place to sit down. Or maybe you brainstorm while you're on your walk some topics you want to write about. So it's just taking that first small step and that will build momentum to take the next step and that will build momentum to take the next step.
Christiane Schroeter:So the petite practice in essence is just tiny, consistent actions that keep you going towards your big goal.
Adam Larson:Well, and those tiny actions end up snowballing into a big action that happens over time. And I think sometimes we this is as humans, we kind of get lost in I have to get here for getting that to get there. You have to take a number of steps to get there. Like every journey starts with the first step. And I think how do you what advice do you give to people like they might take those first couple of steps, but how do you continuously how do you kind of continuously take those steps?
Adam Larson:Because everybody can take a first step, but can you take the third four for the hundredth step?
Christiane Schroeter:Oh, for sure. Yeah, that sometimes when it really happens, right? It's like, my gosh, I did this. And then day three just the everything breaks down and you're like, oh my gosh, I don't feel like it. I didn't sleep well.
Christiane Schroeter:My technology doesn't work. The kids are sick and who knows what, right? So all of a sudden things just fall to the side. So that's kind of like part of the trick that life happens and it will always happen. Tiny means it could be even so tiny that on day three, when you really didn't do anything, you don't beat yourself up about it.
Christiane Schroeter:You could maybe just write down, okay, let me just write down what I'm going to do tomorrow. What are the three things that I could do tomorrow? Just interact with the material. It doesn't have to be long. It doesn't have to be even like something tremendous that you're producing, but just sit down for like, you know, even if it's just a minute or so.
Christiane Schroeter:And let me just think about this. How could I tackle this tomorrow when I have more time and a fresh mind and my kids are maybe feeling a little bit better? So that is really the trick. You give yourself the permission to make it so small that it will work with your schedule. So it's not like every day you have to do ten minutes because you might not have ten minutes every day.
Christiane Schroeter:It's like every day I do something and then you will actually start looking forward to it because you are so permissive that the momentum is really working with you. And I think that is sometimes the trick that we are so especially if you are an entrepreneur, you're so hard on yourself like, well, today I didn't do anything. And in reality, probably did do something. You just not acknowledging it. So petite practice also means you need to praise your progress no matter how small it is.
Christiane Schroeter:So everything is small. Progress is small. Praise is small. And of course, your time and allotment make it so tiny that on the next day you still think I did three days of work, even though I didn't always allot the same amount of time.
Adam Larson:The it kind of changes your perspective because sometimes people get too lost in the big picture and forget about the small parts of it, right? And so it's like, okay, it's like, okay, let me put the blinders back on for a second so I can take those small steps as opposed to continuously looking at the big and getting lost and getting overwhelmed, right?
Christiane Schroeter:Well, and I think that sometimes even the dangerous thing, you know, when you think about yourself and the long to do lists that you have, that we sometimes are so hard on ourselves and aiming for perfection. So petite practice also means that you let go of that idea, oh, it has to be perfect. It's like maybe it is working on it for a little bit and it's maybe like in this absolute drafty, scrappy mode, but you still worked on it. So it's really just something that you have to let go of that feeling that if I start a podcast, I have to have a recording studio. If I work out, I have to have the perfect outfit.
Christiane Schroeter:And if I do this, I have to show up like that. It's not true at all. I mean, like many of these things I started in my life and I was like completely on the other spectrum of being perfect. And here I am three years later and I'm still running my podcast and it's ranked in the top 1%. And guess what?
Christiane Schroeter:Back then, I wasn't thinking about that. Back then, I basically just recorded on my cell phone and I don't even know that I used the microphone properly. I just spoke into it like, oh, here's my podcast. And so this is it, right? You have to be kind of okay with being really scrappy at the beginning because many people will not even take that first step because they're afraid of being so scrappy.
Christiane Schroeter:But you can do this because you are always out beating the competition when you can do this.
Adam Larson:Yeah. It makes me think of like when you're in school, you focus on the design of the PowerPoint as well as the actual content before you actually get to the content because you're so focused because you'd like focusing on the easy things or something simple as opposed to just taking the steps needed to get forward. I really appreciate that perspective.
Christiane Schroeter:And I think that's important too. Speaking of PowerPoint, let's say you look at this PowerPoint and it is really polished and it is so perfect and it just looks so gorgeous. My first thought is it's probably generated by AI,
Adam Larson:Yeah, now
Christiane Schroeter:it's- And I don't even want that, right? I mean, how about a PowerPoint that is maybe far more like who you are and it's showing like personal pictures and it's showing maybe few words because you don't need all these words on the PowerPoint slide. And it's like, you know, there's like a very natural, very authentic presentation about what you're trying to convey that always beats that perfect polished bullet bit PowerPoint presentation where you're feeling like, I don't know where that content really came from. So make it you and at the same time also share that journey like, my gosh, here we go. Why did I start it with this PowerPoint slide?
Christiane Schroeter:And, that's just taking out a little bit of how it gets started. And then over time it will get better. That is always the main goal. Let you show yourself into your work.
Adam Larson:So, in thinking about circling back to storytelling, because we, you know, we wanted to talk a bit about storytelling. And when you think about storytelling, especially in the finance perspective, some people think, let's just make the numbers more interesting, but it's got definitely got to go deeper than that. You know, what does it really mean to say when you're telling a story with financial data?
Christiane Schroeter:I think that you relate it back to you and you make financial data a story that maybe either you used or maybe one of your clients used. But the way that I look at that is nearly like, it's like a seed or a flower and finance kind of the same way that you have to plant that seed in somebody's mind and they nearly see how it's like sprouting and how it's growing. And if I were to just say, well, let's take a look at the numbers. Everybody would like, oh no, let's not take a look at the numbers. But if you are like, well, let me tell you a story about how I did that.
Christiane Schroeter:And then I will tell you a little bit of how you can do that too. But let me just share what I did. People are like, what did she do? Right? So it's always like this personal storytelling.
Christiane Schroeter:And then I say, well, and today I'm actually going to share how you can get there too. All of a sudden it becomes like, yes, now I'm ready for action. Instead of like, well, let's look at the numbers. It's like, I don't know that I really want to take a look at the numbers, right? So you need to like kind of like figure out packaging material a little bit more of a softer framework because it's the story behind it and it's not like the raw black and white data, but it's like a little bit more of like a, you know, like a framework or context around it.
Christiane Schroeter:Why are we actually doing that? And that is really the trick here.
Adam Larson:Yeah, that makes that. I appreciate that. So when you're working with somebody, especially somebody who's really technical, you know, you'd work with people across many different industries and, you know, and these and these folks are being asked to lead conversations, the conversations we've talking about at the C level, at the top level, the board level. What's the first thing that you usually have to have them unlearn when they're trying to present in the way that we've been talking?
Christiane Schroeter:I think it's not presenting too much information. I'd rather instead of just talking, listening. I think that's the main goal that you, you nearly think of this like a river and nobody's going to cross that river with you if it's just like streaming information. You're like, oh, that's a lot of stuff. I'm not even going to put my toes in that, right?
Christiane Schroeter:So you need to think a little bit like, it's like this meandering little, you know, and it's very friendly and there's flowers on the other side and it's like, it's inviting you to dip your toe in it and just kind of start crossing it. You have to think about a conversation like that. You cannot just be like, alright, I got this 80 slide deck. I have some handouts for you. I have this 30 page PDF right here.
Christiane Schroeter:Let's get started. Nobody wants that, right? That's like that, like just like. Just like do this thing. And again, I mentioned that earlier when I'm in a room, I work with a room.
Christiane Schroeter:I watch what people are doing. Are they getting antsy? Well, I better start slowing down. You cannot have 30 slides. I'm going be on slide page 20.
Christiane Schroeter:Well, you just have to wrap it up. It's not working, right? You have to wrap it up and you have to be easy enough to transition into a different mode. How about throwing some questions out there? I think that's the main trick.
Christiane Schroeter:Listen first, then speak.
Adam Larson:Yeah. Well, it's hard too, because sometimes, you feel like your presentation is being very polished and then you kind of get rigid. You rehearsed every word and then something like you're saying, people are falling asleep. You realize that this content isn't working. You know, how do you, how do you help coach people to like, or somebody asks a question that's completely is like on slide 57 and you're like, well, I'm not there yet, but how do you kind of help people stay grounded and help guide them to stay grounded, especially when things go out?
Adam Larson:Cause things are going go off script. Somebody's going to ask a question and you're going get stuck on that question. You won't be able to get to 20 of your slides. You have to be okay with that.
Christiane Schroeter:Always, always because you are using the audience time. I mean, that's a big honor that they're sitting there and you're presenting to somebody who could do a million other things, right? I mean, they are sharing their time with you. So you have to honor that. If they want to know something about and slide 50 you're not okay with going there, well, then you have to say that, right?
Christiane Schroeter:It's like, oh my gosh, I love that question. Question. And you're such a forward thinker. Love it. Keep that in mind.
Christiane Schroeter:And in two slides remind me and we're going to get there, right? Give them a function. Sometimes people just want to test you like who is she going to get off the script, right? Just test them. I said, you know what?
Christiane Schroeter:I'm going to come back to you with that one because that was a really good point. But let me just wrap this up here real quick. Cool. Or like somebody asked a really random question. Let's say, you know what?
Christiane Schroeter:I think this is really good. What does the audience think about this? Like, does anybody have ever experienced this? Because sometimes honestly don't know what to say. And then I'm like, well, maybe somebody else knows.
Christiane Schroeter:Right? And I'm like, okay, people in the audience. What do you think about that? And it gives me some time to think. So I just walk up and down.
Christiane Schroeter:And then people would sometimes realize that was kind of weird, right? So they might answer, they might not answer. That's totally cool. But at the same time, you're like, well, and then at the same time, you know, let's maybe see how this all ties in here. And I just pick up something from that question, like a little nugget.
Christiane Schroeter:Yeah. And then it just keep going on. So the trick sometimes is that people honestly ask sometimes just questions to test who you are. And that's fair, you know, they don't know you. They're there because they could have done something different and they just want to see how you react.
Christiane Schroeter:Kind They of like throw you a ball and I guess you're to catch it or is you're not going to catch it? The trick is just for you to figure out in that moment, what are you going to do with that ball? Are you going to hold it? Are you going to throw it back? Are you going to throw it to somebody different?
Christiane Schroeter:And that's really where the negotiation to work together comes in, because in reality, all relationships are that passing on of information. It's not just like I have it and I'm in charge here. Not at all. You are sure you are the speaker upfront, but to really start working with somebody, you have to engage them in the conversation. And you have to make their story part of your presentation, whether that's an icebreaker, whether that's questions in between, or whether that's just like kind of like ahead of time figuring out who's actually going to be in the audience, you can adjust your speech to the audience.
Christiane Schroeter:But that's really the trick behind it.
Adam Larson:Yeah, I think you have to be okay with it not going okay.
Christiane Schroeter:Of course, of course. Yeah, and then here's a one big really pointer that I see sometimes speakers are doing that you point out on the slide something that you didn't like, right?
Adam Larson:Yeah.
Christiane Schroeter:Like for instance, you're showing a really big table with a bunch of financial numbers. And then you say, well, I put this table here. I think it's really good, but it's probably too small for you to see. And everybody will have the same thought. So why did you put the table If it's too small for us to see.
Christiane Schroeter:I don't get it, right? Why didn't you just extract some numbers and might make three rows, three columns and call it good? Because right now you're trying to tell me finance, but this is like overwhelming. So the thing really is that don't acknowledge your own shortcomings, right? It makes you look unprepared and it makes you look like you didn't care, but you care so much.
Christiane Schroeter:Just like if you have a typo on a slide happens to me all the time. Have a typo on the slide. I just go over it. You know, I know like, well, whatever. Nobody's gonna notice this anyway.
Christiane Schroeter:And sometimes people like, oh, I there's a typo on the slide. I'm like, oh my gosh, I put this in as a test and you got it. So good. That was a test. You did pay attention.
Christiane Schroeter:I love it. You did. Yeah. I mean, like, you will mess up. You will notice when you mess up.
Christiane Schroeter:The worst thing is to actually acknowledge that you did mess up. Like, oh my gosh. Now I just kind of lost my train of thought and everybody will be like, oh, no. This is not good. Don't say that.
Christiane Schroeter:You just move on. It's hard. It's scary.
Adam Larson:It's scary when you're up in front of everybody and you lose your train of thought and sometimes you just you get like, you're like, I have no words. I don't know what to say anymore. And that's that's difficult when you're in that moment.
Christiane Schroeter:Yeah. I mean, the trick really is that you start to get to know yourself and you figure out what type of presenter are you and then have like a little emergency kit for, for situations when there's a weird question, when there is maybe, you know, like the moment when you lost your train of thought, maybe you need water, maybe not feeling comfortable, maybe you start sweating. So you have to start thinking a little bit about all these situations and then just like work them out so that after a while you. It's nearly like a little trigger, right trigger here and you know how to respond. Somebody asked a hard question.
Christiane Schroeter:What do I do? Somebody leaves the room, coughing crazily, and you get really sidetracked because they're slamming the door. What do I do? Right? I mean, you have to think a little bit in terms of your storytelling being the most important thing that you want to get across on that day.
Christiane Schroeter:And there it's not a straight line. There's little, you know, peaks and valleys and that's going to happen to everybody. It's never about about that. It's always people, people, people. They will just be peopleing and you just have to work with that.
Adam Larson:People always be peopleing. That's probably the quote of the year there.
Christiane Schroeter:I know. They will just do their thing. They will cough like crazy. They will start talking to each other. They might watch your YouTube video.
Christiane Schroeter:I mean like who knows what you just have to you just have to go with it like, oh my gosh, I would love to know what you are watching right now. But then again, I don't know. Do we all want to know? Do we not want to know? And like you just have to be okay with that.
Christiane Schroeter:Can I point out these people? Can I not And you just just do it in a way that it's very friendly, but you have to at the end of the day, make sure that what you came for actually got accomplished?
Adam Larson:Definitely. So let's say somebody's listening to this. They're like, Okay, I want to I have a presentation upcoming. I've been listening to everything you're saying. I want to try to apply these steps.
Adam Larson:You know, maybe what's one thing they can do today for that presentation that's upcoming that, you know, like not, not, not tomorrow, but what's something they can do today after finishing this podcast that they can work on for that for that presentation?
Christiane Schroeter:Well, first of all, I would just pick a random person from your inner circle and just have them listen to your presentation. Would be amazed how much that teaches you. When I gave my TEDx talk, honestly, every single day I had, you know, five presentations to other people and that was on top of practicing by myself every single day. I said children, husband, neighbors, whatever, students, clients, who's ready? People, random people on Instagram.
Christiane Schroeter:I can zoom you. Yes, sure. I mean, you just have to do that. Because guess what? The practice is really where you're going to figure out like, is this a good presentation?
Christiane Schroeter:Or is this like the absolute sleeping pill, right? You're after the first two or three times, you're like, this is not good. It happens to me. I presented it. My next talk was done.
Christiane Schroeter:I presented it. And then I was like, alright, feedback. And you know, you're pretty confident. You're like, oh my gosh. I just said that.
Christiane Schroeter:And then like somebody was like, I don't really get it. And I was like, oh my god. Not good. Yeah. This is not what I thought I could eat.
Christiane Schroeter:I was like, hey. And I was like, I don't know. Like And I was like, oh god. Yeah. So I had to start over.
Christiane Schroeter:And you should be okay with that. You have to be okay with people that you care about giving you criticism, but hey, I want to say more an important thing. They were people that came by my house and I presented my TEDx talk to them. And this is like close to TEDx now, a week away. And I think there was sometimes this like, I have to tell her something critical feeling and it has to be, it has to be showing my whatever power, prestige, the fact that I know something about presentation.
Christiane Schroeter:There were those people too. Where sometimes I think, you know, like people just wanted to criticize something and I'm like, I don't think that's a big deal. And it was, you have to be okay with the fact of disregarding some critique, overvaluing some critique. And it's sometimes nearly like a filter of like, who are your true friends? So if you have a presentation, you really care about it, You could start really broad and then really build your funnel down to the people that really care about you and the Trump criticism that is actually something that you can incorporate because some things you just can't, right?
Christiane Schroeter:Like there was this one critic and it criticized like, you know, some things. I was like, that's not me. And so I'm not going to do that, you know? So you just have to be okay with that too.
Adam Larson:Yeah. You have to be able to kind of take the criticism, be able to apply it if you need it, but also be like, Okay, I understand what you're saying. I understand the essence of it. I can't maybe do what you're saying, but I can I can make adjustments accordingly how it works for me?
Christiane Schroeter:Yeah. And it's it's really important that you kind of like when you present and you practice, you actually feel that it's giving a little piece of you, right? So whenever I present something, I always feel that that presentation couldn't have given by somebody else. Because then you're really sharing something with the audience that they will remember, but they will also remember you. And ultimately that's what you want, right?
Christiane Schroeter:So you're not saying, oh, here I am, but you're like, let me let me tell you a little bit something about this. And while you explain it, you're explaining it in such a unique way that it makes you the storyteller that tells stories with these words, with these comparisons, with these ways of using your hands of walking around on the stage and whatever, right? So you don't want to be like, like a, like a, like a Barbie or like a mold of somebody else. You always want to develop your own style and I think that is so important that you figure out who you are, that the audience at the end met who you are and through your storytelling. That is really, really important.
Christiane Schroeter:No matter what you talk about, it's really the essence that you kind of figure out. That's me when I'm standing on stage.
Adam Larson:Well, Christiane, I thank you so much for the advice you've given to our audience and for sharing your knowledge with our audience today. I really appreciate you coming on the podcast.
Christiane Schroeter:Thank you so much, Adam. Audience, it was a pleasure. And if you have any questions, of course, feel free to reach out. I would love to help you.
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