Adam Larson: 00:06

Welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson. In today's episode, I have the pleasure of speaking with Naranzul Ganzorig, the founder of Finside Academy and a true change maker in Mongolia's accounting and finance community. In our conversation, Zula shares her inspiring journey from a high school student fascinated by numbers to studying and teaching accounting abroad and ultimately returning to Mongolia to empower the next generation of finance professionals. You'll hear how her time in UK shaped her perspective, what sparked her passion for management accounting, and why she's decided to launch an academy focused on practical, forward thinking education back home.

Adam Larson: 00:40

Zula also opens up about the challenges of introducing new accounting concepts in Mongolia, the importance of building collaborative professional community, and how she balances life as an entrepreneur, educator, consultant, and mother. Stay tuned for a candid and insightful discussion about embracing change, building networks, and shaping the future of finance in Mongolia. Zula, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I'm excited to have you here as we're gonna talk about a bit about your journey and what's happening over in Mongolia for accounting and finance professionals. But I wanted to start with what inspired you to begin your journey in finance and accounting, and then kind of what led you to the management accounting track.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 01:23

Sure. Yeah. Thank you, Adam, for inviting me to be part of this great podcast. And I am honored and excited to be here sharing my experiences with all of the fellow IMA members around the world. So, about my journey in my early career, I was in in my high school, I was more interested into, you know, maths and numbers, and then I thought maybe, okay.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 01:49

I'll just choose something related with business. I at that time, I didn't know what accounting was. And then I started, my university, and there was this class called, accounting course for four years. But two years, you study in Mongolia, and the next two years, you go to The UK. So I basically chose the, I mean, profession just because I thought, okay.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 02:10

Maybe going to London might be nice. So that's how how it all began. And then after the first semester of the, you know, basic accounting rules and introduction, I actually fell in love with the subject. And even though it it has nothing to do I mean, not nothing to do, but very little to do with maths and stuff, Still, accounting principles and all those, you know, basic understandings were quite interesting for me. So, you know, therefore, I just, finished my study two years in Mongolia, and then I went to UK to finish the next two years of my study over there.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 02:44

So in Mongolia, I was studying bachelor lessons as well as foundation papers of the qualification called ACCA. So and in The UK, I was able to also continue the ACCA journey over there. So, yeah, that's quite the journey that I had in the beginning.

Adam Larson: 03:03

That is quite the journey and kind of and and it's really cool that you've been able to kind of connect with accounting in different locations around the world and and kind of make it apply to what you're doing and and that you enjoyed it as opposed to just going into a subject and not enjoying it, but you actually enjoy the accounting side of things.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 03:20

Yes. I did. That's actually very surprising because some of my friends or classmates, when they, you know, go deeper into the accounting principles to the second semester or third semester, they're like, okay. This is not for me. I'm gonna choose a different class.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 03:34

But for me, it was quite interesting. And, also, it was very practical and useful because my father is a business owner in Mongolia. He has been in the business for almost twenty eight, nine years right now. So, therefore, he's very hardworking man. I obviously look after my father.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 03:54

So he works very busy, you know, with his all, you know, businesses and branches. So every business needs an accountant, obviously. So Mhmm. Whatever I learned, I need I was able to see how it applies in the real world as you know, working as an intern for my father's company at that time. So, basically, from my first year, I just finished the basic principles of the accounting, and then I started working as an intern.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 04:20

So for me, like, learning and applying in the real world, it was very interesting. It still is.

Adam Larson: 04:26

Yeah. It really is because it key because it allows you to to to really put into practice what you the principles that you've been learning and apply it and say, hey. This is actually helpful. So I wanted to talk a little bit about your your organization FinSight Academy. You started your FinSight Academy.

Adam Larson: 04:41

Maybe you could tell us a little bit about that.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 04:44

Yeah. Sure. FinSight Academy has been established in 2022, So that means, you know, right after the pandemic. So we all had some, you know, crazy years to just, sit and reflect, like, what we're doing and how we want to proceed in the future. So I also had that while also, I used to be a teacher, ACCA teacher at the University of Finance and Economics in Mongolia.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 05:12

It was a university that I studied, and then later on, I joined as a teacher. So I actually found my passion in teaching. And, also, I found myself, more into, you know, applying those what I was teaching. So I wanted to teach and also, you know, show my students to apply those skills and theories in real world. So that's what, motivated me to start a consulting business.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 05:42

So I started doing some, you know, background researches and, you know, market demand researchers, whatever in my during my free time while I was working since 2020. So that's where the Finsight Corp was established first. Yeah. And then I established Finsight Academy two years later, and I wanted to specialize more into management accounting concepts and applications in Mongolia because as I was, you know, researching about the main problems here in the business world, the main thing was the managements of the businesses were not getting enough information to make decisions. You know, we can I mean, I also had, you know, much more resources and able to see it just from my dad, like, what he's encountering, what he needs?

Naranzul Ganzoring: 06:27

So and, also, he has, you know, different types of businesses that he owns. So that was a really great case for me to, you know, begin. How is management account working in Mongolia? So that was the question that I started digging on more. And then I thought, okay.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 06:44

We need management accountancy in Mongolia, all of the businesses, especially SMEs. And then we had no talent for, you know, management accountants. Like, people were like, what's the difference? That's the same accounting. Like, accountants should know, you know, all of the things.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 07:00

What does management accounting mean? So I still have this question, you know, most of the time from my clients, from my, you know, friends, fellow colleagues. So I thought, okay. So now I need to train the professionals first. So in order to train the professionals, I also wanted to do to teach them something more forward thinking in a way too and as well as, you easily applicable to their careers at any stage.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 07:25

So that's why I was looking into IMA certifications, and I thought, okay. CMA, that's the one. And as a, yeah, as someone who studied ACCA before, ACCA is, you know, more inclusive of, you know, all of the administrative accounting concepts, audits, financial reporting, everything. But CMA was solely focusing on all those management accounting decision topics, which were very interesting and very much needed for Mongolian professionals. So that's Mhmm.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 07:55

How it all started with the PhysX Academy.

Adam Larson: 07:58

That's amazing. Maybe you can share as a small business owner yourself, you know, can you share some of the challenges that you had launching your academy, especially in a place where, you know, management accounting concepts were completely unknown?

Naranzul Ganzoring: 08:10

Yeah. It was only in books and theories. You know? Because in on the Yeah. Real practical life, people were like, what is management reporting?

Naranzul Ganzoring: 08:18

You know? How do you prepare the management reports? And what's it why is it different than the financial statements? So these kind of questions just, you know, illustrated that how management accounting principles were not applied in Mongolia enough to Mhmm. For SME owners to make, you know, on time decisions for their businesses.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 08:37

So it was all happening in their head. You know? So the accountants needed to step up and, you know, upskill themselves, become, you know, certified management accountants, and then help their organizations further. So that's how I saw. And, also, another challenge is of being a small business in Mongolia, as you asked, is, in my opinion, it was the lack of the resources, especially financial resources.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 08:58

So, even if you want, you can't really hire a full time management accountant. I mean, you have, like, only three to four people working for you, and then you guys are just concentrating on the main operations. And then you just, you know, couldn't really afford their salary because those, certified I mean, management accountants should be, you know, certified, more skilled. They should be you know, have their, you know, expertise. So that's why, you know, hiring those expert skills in SME businesses in house was the main issue in my opinion.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 09:33

So, yeah, that's why I thought, okay. Maybe I should start preparing the CMAs and also, you know, helping the businesses understand, especially the directors understand that why they need business. I mean, management accounting. Why they need management report? Why is it different?

Naranzul Ganzoring: 09:51

So I have been doing, you know, lots of public education trainings and speakings for since 2022. Yes. And I'm still doing it.

Adam Larson: 10:01

You're still doing it. Yeah. It's it's gonna be I'm sure it's gonna be a journey kind of getting everybody on the same page and saying, hey. This is what we need to have better accounting practices to make our businesses more successful.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 10:13

Yeah. Definitely. Because, let's say, like, if the accounting was something like a coin Mhmm. One side was the financial accounting, and the another side was the management accounting. And people were only talking about financial accounting, so that's why they didn't know, you know, management accounting importance and how they should differentiate the two roles.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 10:34

So I had to train both parties, accountants and directors. So they need to have a better understanding of the management accounting, and then I needed to train their accountants and as well as encourage, you know, business owners to hire this kind of, manager accounting talents that I'm preparing. So that is basically what I am doing at Finsight Academy and Finsight Corp till now. Yes.

Adam Larson: 11:00

It's amazing. I love that. Maybe you could, talk a little bit. How how has your experience studying abroad and then returning home kind of influenced the way you approach education, your professional development?

Naranzul Ganzoring: 11:10

That's a really nice question because I think it affects, everyone, to be honest. Like, when you go and study in a different country when you were young, like, you have that fresh perspective about everything. So, basically, you know, people I mean, me and my friends from Mongolia, we were thinking, okay. Obviously, in Greece, beautiful. Everybody loves London.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 11:33

Everybody loves the cultures and everything, obviously. But we were, seeing more of, like, what we can bring to our home after we graduate. Like, what kind of best experiences or knowledge this year we can bring to our country. So I was looking how businesses are working and how professionals are being trained, and especially the university that I that I studied was a private university to train all of these certified professionals, like ACCA members and AA members, like all the professional education sector they were more concentrated on. So they were very, very skilled, and both academically and professionally, they were exemplary teachers.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 12:19

So I was like, okay. I had I have a good education, and I wanted to, you know, apply these these rules when I come back. So I had, like, you know, knowledge and ideas and full of, maps that I, you know, did while I was having new ideas and stuff. So that's how I studied. And, also, from the other perspective, when you were becoming, you know, independent adult on your own, away from your parents, obviously, that also gives you, you know, so much more responsibility and how to take care of yourself both professionally and also into the different society.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 12:56

So I think it affected me, you know, on every aspects of my life. And, yeah, I'm really glad that I stayed in The UK. It's a great country.

Adam Larson: 13:05

Yeah. That's amazing. I love that. Well, and I love that you can you can you have the perspective of let me go and see what other people are doing so that I can help improve where I came from. Because sometimes people go and they never come back and that's that's their journey, but your journey is, hey.

Adam Larson: 13:19

I'm gonna come back and help. And and I think it's amazing that you're bringing all these people together because I remember when when you and I met in person, you were telling me about that you have you know, you you help like to bring all the accountants together, whether you're CPA, ACCA, CMA. You like to bring them all together. So maybe we can talk a little bit what is it like bringing people from all the different disciplines together but saying, hey. We need to have better accounting practices in our country.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 13:42

Yeah. Definitely. That's also all began because, you know, I was both studying for the degree, and then later on, I was teaching the degree. And then I became a business owner, so I was also applying or hiring those talents. So therefore, I was, you know, having an ideas from both parties, all of the parties, actually.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 14:02

So I thought, okay. We need to, you know, join together, join our forces, learn from each other, and then we can have a better impact in our business world in Mongolia. So I, established this NGO called AMIRA for short. It's an association of Mongolian internationally recognized companies. And I have people who have ACCS or CPAs from different countries.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 14:26

Let's say US CPA, Australian CPA, Mongolian CPA, and then CMAs like us. And yeah. So and, also, we have some people from CFA and PMI like other degrees as well because we wanted to, you know, enrich our community as much as we can. So, therefore, we can have a better, you know, knowledge sharing experience and as well as as well as to have a better network that we can, you know, rely on or, you know, just share our ideas with. So that is also going pretty well.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 14:57

And I was, trying to introduce this, CMA degree in Mongolia for the first time. So I saw all of the challenges, and I saw how hard it was to make people understand why you need to value or hire internationally recognized professionals in business. So I had to, you know, increase my reach in this community. So that's why I thought, okay. We need to join forces.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 15:23

We need to learn from each other. And, also, finance people tend to be a little bit more, you know, introverts and, you know, just doing their work and being Mhmm. Just going home and work. So I thought that, okay. I I need to I need to gather them together, and we can have some other, you know, nonwork related activities and community services among us.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 15:44

So that's how it all started, and it's going pretty well so far. Yes.

Adam Larson: 15:50

That's amazing. Maybe you can share just what are some of the things you've learned kind of developing that community and bringing everybody together?

Naranzul Ganzoring: 15:58

Yeah. The thing is all of these internationally certified or recognized professionals, they are very, very skilled, obviously, and they have very good experiences or, you know, real life changes that they're making in their companies. But when we share that together, we learn from each other, not only on a personal level, but on a company's level. Like, okay. This company is, you know, bringing forward sustainable activities.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 16:24

This company is doing, you know, gender neutral financing activities, whatever. So we can we could learn from each other or have this synergy of working together, collaborating together as companies as well. So that also gave me, you know, even more benefits, you know, more than just the professionals themselves, even on the business levels. And, also, we were able to train ourselves with different skills. Well, let's say for our, certified professional degrees, we learn more into the hard skills, accounting skills, and knowledge.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 16:58

So and then we wanted to have some soft skill sessions as well. Yeah? So we want to, like, okay. Let's bring together. Let's have this training.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 17:05

So it's all very interesting. Yeah.

Adam Larson: 17:11

Yeah. No. That's that's I love that. It's it's really amazing because, you know, sometimes, you know, you don't have the folks who have these different certifications. They stick with the other folks who have those certifications.

Adam Larson: 17:21

And it's rare to see them all come together and to see them all come together and say, let's apply the best practices so that we can improve all of our organizations is is it is is really inspiring.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 17:32

Yes. And, Taj, let's just say an example. All the accountants need some kind of, project management skills. But we have those project management professionals, PMP members who can, you know, come and share their experiences with us, or they can teach accounting related professional management skills for us. And then all of the project managers, they need accounting knowledge.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 17:54

They need, you know, finance knowledge. So then we can teach them. So that's just how it works. And it, you know, it just became, bigger than I anticipated at first because I was only thinking about, you know, professionals and community, and then it began this whole new level of knowledge sharing base in Mongolia. And, also, you know, as you know, Mongolia is a small country.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 18:17

Land size wise, we're big, but people wise, we're, like, only 3,500,000 people. So, you know, sometimes we need to be closer to each other and learn from each other in order to accelerate the growth of the business or, you know, any other thing, to be honest.

Adam Larson: 18:33

Yeah. For sure. Well, and it is for it's really inspiring. You know? And I have to ask, you know, you have many roles.

Adam Larson: 18:39

You're an entrepreneur. You're an educator, a consultant, and a mother. You know, what kinda keeps you motivated to keep going and keep doing all this?

Naranzul Ganzoring: 18:47

Yeah. Thank you very much. I'm just, trying my best every day. That's what I could say. Because some days are not that great, you know, having a business and managing a team and also teaching these, you know, certifications.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 19:00

It's not an easy thing to do, but I am, you know, converting my passion into work. I am doing what I love, so that's why I'm not, you know, that's tired or burnt out all the time. But I also have some other struggles, like managing time and, you know, work life balance and everything like everyone does. But I think the core is I found what I love to do, so I somehow managed. And I'm trying more and more to happily work and happily live in my own terms.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 19:32

So that means I don't want to, you know, spend twenty hours of my life just for work, or I don't want to just stay at home and do nothing for twenty hours. Like, I needed those kind of balance. So sometimes if I want to have just, you know, kid kids time, I I will just stay home. Or sometimes if I want to, you know, push the project, okay, I'll just go to work. So I also have a very supportive family members and friends, so I can rely on them.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 19:58

Yeah. So I still, you know, trying my best every day. I I won't say I'm perfect for this. I have my challenges every now and then. Yeah.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 20:07

But Of course. The core thing is I love what I do. I love my family, so I kind of manage everything in its own way.

Adam Larson: 20:16

Yeah. Well, that's the I think that's the beautiful thing that sometimes if you if people if somebody works in a, like, a major corporation and you're going to the nine to five and you're going to an office every day, you kind of you don't understand the side of small business that, you know, that happens in many places around The US, in many places around the world. You know, there's so many small businesses and it's a whole different atmosphere because you're in charge of everything and, you know, you're trying to do everything, plus you have your family life and everything else. You can't just go to the office and just leave it there and come home. Sometimes it comes with you.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 20:47

Yeah.

Adam Larson: 20:48

And so I I I commend you because it's it's it's it's quite the challenge.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 20:53

Yeah. It is, really. Yeah. Because for the corporate job, you can just do your part and go home and just forget about everything. But, you know, when you're a business owner, it's not, you know, always your, like, boss image that people will think that it's cool.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 21:05

Actually, you have to do everything yourself. And Yeah. You won't work nine to five, but you will have work on your mind almost twenty four hours a day. So that's a challenge. So that's why it's important to, start a business or start this kind of, you know, entrepreneur journey with what you really love to do and what brings you happiness.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 21:26

Because otherwise, it's a hard journey, and people will be burnt out, obviously.

Adam Larson: 21:32

Yeah. Well and and that makes me think, you know, as you yourself are a business owner and a CEO and you run your own business, you know, does that give you an advantage when you're talking to other business owners trying to help them understand that they need to have good accounting practices that you can speak their same language and understand where they're at?

Naranzul Ganzoring: 21:49

Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Because that I think that is my main, advantage, I think, compared to other accounting professionals because I know what it takes to run a business. I know what kind of informations are needed or, you know, how the daily operations work and how the business owners are in their heads.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 22:07

So I think I have a pretty good understanding of what they want. So it's easier for me to talk with the business owners. Okay. Let's just separate financial accounting, management accounting. This person is responsible for this, this, this, and then another management accountant is responsible for this.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 22:22

So it's, like, easier for me to make them understand. And on the other hand, I'm an accountant too, so it's also easier for me to let the accountants understand what their managers or boss or board want. And teaching, you know, teaching wise, where I have my, you know, most passion is I used to study these, you know, international certifications, and it's really hard. I spent lots of time, and I think I cried a lot as well in between exams. It's really tiring.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 22:52

And Yeah. Yeah. If you don't have the strong enough goal or, you know, this motivation, it's hard. Like, you can just leave it. You know?

Naranzul Ganzoring: 23:00

So that's why I I wanted to, you know, help my students and, you know, younger fellow colleagues to achieve their goals and to finish what they started. So and I also know the struggles. So I'm not really teaching them from there. I was teaching with them, like, them, learning them Yeah. Together.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 23:20

So that was also my another advantage.

Adam Larson: 23:24

Do you find you get pushback from from leaders, especially if they've had their business for a long time and they have their way of doing things? Do you get pushback and saying, well, I don't wanna like, it's been working so far, but that doesn't mean it's okay.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 23:37

Yeah. That's true. Of course, I have, you know, lots of these, challenges from other business owners, especially in between generations. You know? People have different understandings of how things should be run.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 23:48

So, of course, when I was dealing with someone like my father, you know, I have to have a different strategy to talk with them, maybe. And then if I'm gonna, you know, dealing with some, you know, Gen Z boss, then I have to be also different. So I kind of, you know, need to know who I'm dealing with first, and then I can have, you know, better strategy to deal with. In Mongolia, when I first started my own business and advanced opening my academy and managing all of these things, I had the most challenges in to be accepted as a young leader or young business owner. That was the most challenge.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 24:25

Like, we don't really have that many issues, you know, for the gender wise. Equally accepted here, and people respect women business owners over here. But the main challenge was, like, you're too young. You're not old enough maybe to start a business. You're not old enough to know all these experiences.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 24:42

So those kind of challenges were quite real for me in the few years, beginning few years. And then later, I said, okay. Everybody is learning. You know, we are all learning for our lifetime. So I will I will just do my best, and then I will see I'll help, you know, for the small businesses.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 25:02

If they really want to change their game, they really need to step up their accounting, especially to management accounting. So, you know, that's, you know, almost inevitable. So, therefore, I was like, okay. When the boss is not ready, okay. Next boss.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 25:16

When the leader is ready, okay. I'll work with you. So I'll I'm going something like this. I'm also, you know, not really pushing myself too hard to gain more clients, to make more money. I was like, I'm more into, like, really bringing this change into the organization one by one.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 25:33

So I'm focused on very few but very, you know, rich case companies to work with. Yeah. Because management accounting concept is really big and interesting, so I need companies or clients that I can apply, you know, most of the principles in real life. Mhmm. So that is how I'm advancing so far because I'm also teaching, so I can't really be full business owner or full teacher.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 25:56

I have to have them both in a balanced way.

Adam Larson: 25:58

You have to wear a lot of different hats throughout the day.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 26:02

Yeah. Yeah. But it doesn't really seem like, you know, needing to change myself to for those hats. It's just Mhmm. It seems like, okay.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 26:12

I'm a good fit for this for for what I'm doing. That's my feeling. Yes.

Adam Larson: 26:16

So this has, you know, been an amazing conversation, especially you've been sharing your journey with our audience. And, you know, I like to ask this question, especially for people who are doing new things in spaces. And what is your vision for the future of edgy of finance education and professional development in Mongolia?

Naranzul Ganzoring: 26:32

Yeah. Thank you for that question. Let's get serious for that question. So I think we have a lot to grow in in Mongolian, you know, finance sector and education sector. And Mhmm.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 26:43

In my vision, as I'm doing this, Amira NGO and also this Finsight Academy to prepare future management accounts, I see that our roles are changing with the technologies. Everyone is talking about AI. Everyone is talking about automation. So that is inevitable to come for us to the businesses. So we need to prepare ourselves ahead for those challenges.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 27:08

So when the, you know, AI or automation, all of these new technologies emerge, we need to have a right skills and right talent for that. And also, we need to have a, you know, ready companies to hire those talents. Mhmm. Again, we need to do the, you know, educating for both sides. So that goes more effective than just preparing the accounts or just, you know, training the business owners.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 27:35

So therefore, the education or training works both ways. And, also, I'm thinking that financial accounting is now pretty well developed in Mongolia, and we have a lot of room to grow in the management accounting side. Because once we I know most of the automate our rules, then we need to make decisions. I mean, not make decisions, prepare information for our managers to make better decisions for the company. So in the whole picture, better decisions for our life.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 28:08

So we will need many more good CMAs here in Mongolia. Mhmm. Yeah. So I think the better part of having this management accounting role is we can really tailor it to our own skills and own expertise and maybe even personality. Because financial accounting or all those standards are written anyway, but you can be only a good management accountant as unique as you can be.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 28:37

Because all of the management reports are, you know, basically rely on that management account skills and, you know, his or her, I mean, visions of what kind of information that they need for the company to move forward. So, yeah, that is another thing. And lastly, I think our country is developing country, and we will have many more, you know, international collaborations or investors, or maybe we can also, you know, launch our companies or branches in the road as well very soon. It's already happening here. So we have to be ready for that, which means we have to speak the same language with the world, not English.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 29:18

But the business wise, we have to be, you know, certified professionals. It doesn't matter if it's ACCA, CPA, CMA, but you have to have that credential in order to speak the same business language with other businesses around the world. Yeah. So that's what I think about the future of the Mongolian finance education.

Adam Larson: 29:38

Well, Zula, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I really appreciate it getting to know you, getting to hear your journey, and I know that our audience will as well.

Naranzul Ganzoring: 29:46

Thank you very much, Adam. It was lovely to be here.

Announcer: 29:50

This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast, providing you with the latest perspectives of thought leaders from the accounting and finance profession. If you like what you heard and you'd like to be counted in for more relevant accounting and finance education, visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.