Ep. 315: How to Stand Out in International Finance with the CMA and CSCA
Welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larsen, and today I'm joined by two inspiring guests, Charu Solanki and Unzi Ramanathan, who have built impressive international careers in finance. In this episode, we'll explore why finance professionals are on high demand across the globe and how certifications like the CMA and CSCA can help set you apart in a crowded field. Charu and Uzi share their personal journeys from starting out in India and Dubai to making their marks in places like Hong Kong and The US. Along the way they dive into practical insights on skills you need to thrive in the industry from strategic decision making and risk management to the importance of the ability to adapt and continuous learning.
Adam Larson:We'll also talk about how to leverage your network, why staying ahead of technology matters and how you can actively stand out as a global finance leader. Whether you're just starting out or looking to elevate your career, there's a lot to learn from their experiences. So stay tuned for a conversation full of advice, stories and actionable takeaways. Well, Unzi and Charu, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I'm very excited to have you on as we're going to be talking about the skills needed to have a global finance career and especially the importance of things like the CMA and the CSCA in that career.
Adam Larson:And to start the conversation off, I was thinking we could talk about, you know, why are finance professionals in high demand globally and what kind of factors have you seen contribute to that trend?
Unnamalai Ramanathan:Finance profession is basically evolving a lot. There's a lot of badmisses that we have to do. There's a lot of information that goes into preparing our financials. The laws, the regulations have been constantly changing, and we have to keep up with that. So that's the main reason why it's very important for us to have a skill set that keeps us almost in line with technology and keeps us up to date.
Charu Solanki:Just thinking about recent times, I think the reason why finance professionals have been in high demand and always have been is because the recent boom in AI, I feel like it doesn't cut through the finance industry just yet. Like there's a lot of rules and regulations and how AI can touch the finance sector and because we deal with, you know, of us deal with real money for real people. I feel like there's that hesitance that people have in terms of using AI. So there's more need for, you know, sort of a human skill set in that regard. So I feel like we have an upper hand now in terms of, you know, for example, in the tech industry, a lot of their roles are being swapped with AI, but I think there's still a long way for that to happen in finance and which I think sort of keeps it interesting.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:That's true. Basically, AI cannot do your books of accounts for you. AI cannot accurately apply GAAP. AI cannot take or approve bank payments or set up bank payments because it's all sensitive information. Having such sensitive information needs a human touch and not only a normal human touch, but it also needs like someone who's experienced and who has the skill set to actually get to the roots of all the causes.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:Basically, if you have a problem in finance, you cannot have anyone else solve it but a finance professional who's been having that skill set. That skill set is very necessary. You need to understand finance. You need to understand the root cause for a lot of issues. You to understand the whole strategy of the company, understand the cash flow, the management of cash flow, because all of these things are the most important in our day to day of management of business.
Adam Larson:So you guys are both you are you are both certified management accountants or CMAs. And Unzi, you are also a CSCA, which is a certified Strategy and Competitive Analysis certification. And how have you seen these certifications help you as you've grown in your careers? Think,
Charu Solanki:Adam, in terms of the certification, I feel like it does equip you with the right level of skill set and knowledge that you need in the accounting world. I think it sort of refreshes all the concepts and gives you a detailed understanding of the various concepts that you might use day to day. The certifications also have a good way of testing your competency in a way that applies to the real world. Is theoretical, but the way I think the curriculum and the exam is structured, it sort of tries to test you and prepares you for the real world. More than that, what I feel gives you an edge is just having those certifications over your colleagues, because it does show to your management and to anyone who's hiring that you've put in that extra effort to sort of deepen your understanding or get that extra edge over your colleagues.
Charu Solanki:I feel like just having those certifications on your resume or on your file sort of builds your case for someone who's more proactive, someone who's more involved with the industry. And I think that's where you sort of gain the extra edge with both the CMA and the CSCA certifications.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:I'd like to add here that one great biggest advantage of CMA is that you can do it when you're in university. You don't have to complete your graduation to do it. And I took advantage of that because I wanted to take another professional certification. I went through all the testing and everything. I wasn't eligible.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:And I decided, Okay, fine, I'm eligible for CMA. I'll take that as a stepping stone and I'll give myself that extra time to go through CMA. I did it when I was in my first, second year of my college, so I was like very new to this. So I did it in my first, second year of university. So it was very helpful for me because it helped me in my studies.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:It helped me graduate with a CMA certification, though I've not completed the work experience. But once I complete the work experience, I'm good to go. And I showed that as a stepping stone for me to get a job outside. It was recognized in multiple countries. I got an offer from Dubai and I was able to take up a career in Dubai.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:I moved to Big Four later, so I was able to take that CMA certification that I've done almost while I was in college. And that has helped me to actually step up my career little by little by little. So I completed my CMA in college. I graduated. Two years later, I got my CMA certification with the experience.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:And then I got promoted. I got into a Big four company. And then while I was working in a Big Four company, it's just like I always make fun of CSCA saying that it's like a booster seat. You know, when a child grows up, it's a booster seat. So it was like a booster seat for me because I was already in a position in my career where I could also help in strategical decision making and try to bring that to focus.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:So that really helped me CSCA, having a certification, how to look at things. That really helped me as well in my career growth.
Adam Larson:Maybe we could talk a little bit about some of the skills or competencies that you've gained and that you've been able to apply that you gained through the different certifications that you and your.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:Yeah. So basically, like the CMA itself covers a lot of your finance related certifications, ethics. And ethics is at a very young age when you're starting CMA, know ethics, that's like your base. So you start off with that. And then CSCA, how do you do comparative analysis?
Unnamalai Ramanathan:How do you do strategical decision making? People related decisions? All of that comes in CSCA. So the merger of these two is just like a perfect like, it's like a perfect meal. It has all the spice and the salt and everything.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:It's perfect. So that's why it really stands out. The skill sets. Right now, CMA has evolved. When I studied CMA, it's like almost ten years ago.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:Right now it's like it's evolved. Like, you know, right now we have technology in CMA. We have a lot of new technologies that's being covered under the CMA syllabus, which was like, as the technology is growing, the syllabus keeps getting updated. It's not like you're just doing the same level of courses every time. Your course gets updated regularly for improvements and the market conditions, what is in trend right now in the market?
Unnamalai Ramanathan:What are the skill sets that is actually required for finance professionals? And I always tell the same thing. If you don't outskill yourself so I'll repeat that again. I always tell the same thing that if you don't upscale yourself again and again You would be out of I don't know why I'm feeling why I'm feeling so nervous. Okay.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:I always tell this, if you don't upscale yourself regularly, technology will outsmart you. You need to upscale yourself. That's very, very important. For me, continuous learning has been key. Every year I take up a certification, I take up a course, I take up something because that keeps me relevant.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:And like, if I see like from the year I graduated till today, every year I've done a certification, not just to add something to my name, but to gain the skill sets that's very important in our day to day work.
Charu Solanki:Yeah, I'd like to add that I think the core skills that you gain when you take up these certifications are analytics. I feel like that's one skill within the world of finance that you need to always have under your belt. Unfortunately, all of our undergraduate programs don't give you that first time experience on cost analytics or any type of management analytics that can help you take more strategic management decisions. So I feel like those skills are very helpful. When I took up the CMA just in addition to my undergrad and that sort of helped me gain an edge over my colleagues.
Charu Solanki:When I joined my first role, which was as a cost accountant for real estate business, so you're dealing with a lot of numbers, you're dealing with a lot of details in real estate and so the CMA sort of helped me put a structure to it because I did know the different types of analytical tools and analytical theories that I could apply to those numbers. Just right out in the beginning, which was not expected. But I think that gave me an edge. The other more important skill that I feel all finance professionals should have and that these certifications are good for is risk management. They sort of tell you or give you the right tools to analyse risk, which might not be apparent in the numbers or which might not be apparent in the conversations you may have.
Charu Solanki:And I think it's up to us as finance professionals to always highlight the risk that your numbers might be telling you and analyse that and present it in a way that management can make more informed decisions knowing the risks that lie within the business. So I feel like those two key skill sets, cost analytics and risk analysis sort of help develop a nice base for you to be able to take better management and strategic decisions, which is what you eventually have to get to as you grow in your career.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:Yeah. And we have like regular CPA events where you meet as a chapter. I mean, for a person who's in their early 20s or like who's just finished CMA out of school, just to do that and meet people who have like fifty years of experience and both of them come together, think together. That's like, that's something that no school can teach. Like, it's very, very important.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:I met a lot of connections through those chapters. I volunteered as a board for those chapters. Has been like, you know, a key to making connections, basically. Connections is the next AI. It's basically the next AI.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:You need to have connections. It helps you to understand things better. It helps you to grow in your career. It helps you to understand what's actually going on in each everyone's business. You just have a talk with them, keep in touch with your connections.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:And these regular CPE events puts you up for like, you know, all the courses that you wouldn't have otherwise learned if you had not attended those CPE events.
Adam Larson:Yeah, it's important to make connections with folks and especially networking when you're early in your career and even as you're progressing in your career, making connections with people and growing in the different skills and knowledge that you need. You know, you both mentioned the importance of strategic decision making and things like analytics. How have you been able to, take those on and grow in your career and advance by utilizing these different skills you've been able to acquire?
Charu Solanki:So, I think Adam, just leaning on from the last response, certifications, I think they equip you in a way by giving you the kind of exposure, the kind of practical exposure that maybe an undergraduate program cannot. So I think in terms of the skills that you mentioned, which is analytics and leadership, I think these certifications sort of help you in two ways. Number one is the way they test. I think it's a very interesting program and the way they test for your knowledge is very interesting with certain questions. I think these certifications sort of help you gather and apply these skill sets in two ways.
Charu Solanki:I think number one is the testing mechanism. I feel like I have written a couple of different professional exams and I feel like the way the CMA tests for your application of what you've learned, it really gives you that real life experience. So I think we have both sort of the more objective questions where you pick out multiple choice and then you have the more subjective questions where you sort of, you you're put in a situation and you respond to that situation as if you were, you know, CMA. So I felt like that really helped prepare me for the real world because that's typically how, you know, when you're put up in a presentation, you're given a situation and you're like, find a solution for this. So I felt like that gave me the right skill set and the confidence to come up with solutions using those tools.
Charu Solanki:And I think secondly, as Wamsi was mentioning, the network that you create as part of just being a CMA and getting access to other CMAs in different industries. And especially if you're someone who puts an effort to go to the CPE events or just regular networking events or try to network with CMAs in your region, It gives you that industry experience and that knowledge that can help you get access to information that might not be available anywhere else, right? Like what kind of situations or problems are other industries facing? How are CMAs solving those problems for those industries? And sort of learning through that, which I think gave me an edge.
Charu Solanki:I was part of the CMA Bangalore chapter, part of the organizing committee for a few years, which gave me access to a big network of CMAs in Bangalore. I then moved to Hong Kong and I attended certain events for CMA in Hong Kong as well. And now recently I moved to The US and I'm part of the US CMA chapter. It's a good network that keeps you connected, that keeps you abreast the industry, which also has helped me in my growing role within my career to sort of apply those skill sets to my role.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:I'd like to add that, you know, as a finance professional, there multiple finance professionals graduating out of college every year. You need to have a niche. I always consider myself as positioning myself. You know, I need to position myself as a different person among all the other people that are there. It makes you stand out, makes you stand out in interviews, makes you stand out in opportunities, makes your resume stand out in anything that you're applying them to.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:That's my most important thing. And CMA gave me that niche, you know, having completed CMA at a young age, having done the CSCA, which is, as I said, my boosted seat and also like putting together this whole resume, which makes, which almost portrays the image that the person has gone through, like from basic management accounting to a strategic level person, and the person's ready to take up challenges. So that's the picture that I want to paint out there. And these skills not only gives me the additional opportunity based on like the certifications, the names and the niche that it places me in, it's a unique placing criteria. Like, you know, it's a unique selling point for me, like how we have USP for products.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:It's a USP for me as a person, as a finance professional, because I want to make myself stand out. And these certifications help me stand out. The biggest thing I could say is I studied in India. I moved to Dubai. I worked in Dubai.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:And then from Dubai, I moved to US and I'm working in The US right now, all within the same company. I got into a big four company in Dubai and then I got transferred to The US because my skill sets are a global skill set. It's not like it's not confined to a country. It's not confined to a region. The skill set is a global skill set.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:And you learn both US GAAP as well as the difference between US GAAP and IFRS and CMA, which is a very good niche because it helps you to survive in Middle Eastern countries, it helps you to survive in European countries. You could you could actually be anywhere because you have this global skill set.
Adam Larson:So, you both started your career in one place and then moved to a few different countries as you've gone. You know, Unzi, you had the opportunity to go within the same company, Chero. I don't know if you've been able to go or different companies, but how was that how was that experience, starting in one country, going to another country, and then going to another country, even in the same company or different companies? I can only imagine what that was like, you know, from a cultural perspective of, okay, now I'm in a new place. I might be in the same organization, but each each office has their own office politics, office culture.
Adam Larson:And then beyond that, you're in a whole different country where there's that country has their own cultures and and things going on. So I want you guys if you could talk a little bit about that experience.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:Yeah. Being an MNC, like, the culture is very multicultural. So you live and work with multicultural people. Not everyone is from the same region. There's so many multicultural people.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:You work with GDS offices. You work with service centers that might be located in Philippines, might be located in India. You work with a group of people and it's full army that you're working with. So when you move from country to country, for me, the biggest change was just a time zone. Like, you know, before we were in India, you would wake up at their time and work to their time.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:And now I have to wake up maybe ten hours earlier to talk to the Indian team. But like, we just figured that out and like working with global teams, basically like having to figure out the time when to have your meetings and how to talk, what is respectful, what is not respectful. I think that comes with a more multicultural environment. Like you need to understand what is respectful. In certain countries, something might be considered very disrespectful.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:You need to be very aware of that. And that's how you need you need to position yourself in every environment that you're working in.
Adam Larson:It's almost like you have to immerse yourself in that local culture to understand what you're going to be dealing with and also just how to live and just go from day to day.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:Correct. You need to network with people who are local there, who are from there, just like, you know, your office colleagues. And like, you know, always tell everyone, like, I moved to New York, and three questions that I get asked the most is, the weather has been bad, how is your weekend? What are you doing for summer? And then go back to another country.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:They never talk about these three things. They talk about what are you gonna have for lunch? Do you wanna grab lunch? So it's kind of like every culture, the questions, the starting conversations are totally different. Like, you know, you need to keep up with that.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:In Dubai, you could walk very slowly on the road. Nobody would care because nobody's walking on the road. And then in New York, if I'm walking slowly, everyone's like, Are you taking a stroll in Central Park? It's kind of like totally different, different things.
Charu Solanki:Your question, Adam, I've also been with the same organization, moved to two regions with them. So it's been a similar experience as I say. I feel like the thing that stood out the most for me, actually there are two things. One is definitely the work culture. So, I started my career in India, where you're working with different regions globally and your culture depends on the region that you cover.
Charu Solanki:If you work more with The Americas, your culture is more American. If you work with India, your work culture is more European. But then I moved to Hong Kong, which lives in its own time zone of its own within Asia, because it's so far away from like The US or even EMEA, As that day was finishing up, the rest of the regions came on. So while for most of our work day it was just us trying to manage the workload. And I felt like in Asia people were really more systematic in their approaches, they were more operational, you know, like they would be told, this is what you need to do from A to B, and this is what you need to do from B to C, and this is how you reach your goal.
Charu Solanki:That's what they would follow to the T. Like there was very little room for innovation or changing something. If you wanted to make a change, it was so difficult, you'd have to take, I don't know how many approvals and convince how many people to make a change, which was very interesting for me because in India that wasn't the case in India, you talk to your manager, you talk to a few people, you can change the process if that's more efficient. So it was sort of a big change for me. And then cut to The US, it's so much more different.
Charu Solanki:Like in The US, you are the decision maker, right? You can decide what you want the process to be. You can change it according to, what the business needs are, what the client needs are. And it's so fast paced, you're not really waiting on a lot of approvals to make efficient changes. So I felt like that was a key theme I noticed through different regions.
Charu Solanki:Just because you work in an American company, how different regions behave, how the mindset of the work culture is. So I think that was a good learning curve for me. And the second thing is the amount of admin tasks that you have to do to be able to set yourself up fully from scratch in a new country. For example, in The Americas, I was declined a credit card my first few months because I did not have credit history. I was like, well I've been working for eight years, know, I earned a decent salary, you know saying I can't have credit card.
Charu Solanki:So it was a very different experience but Hong Kong was totally different. In Hong Kong you could you know, set yourself up without having any trial credit and money is very free flowing. Whereas in The Americas, it's a lot more restrictive to start if you don't have credit history, which was interesting to me.
Adam Larson:What I found interesting with both both answers was that you both have to be you have to be very adaptable wherever you are. And I know it's a it's it's different when you're in one country and you're just maybe switching organizations. You still have to be adaptable, but the adaptability kind of grows to personal life to, you know, even to something as simple as getting a credit card, how you have to be adaptable, you know, where no matter where you're going. And I'm wondering, you know, if the skills you've learned in some of the certifications, you know, have helped you be more adaptable and be ready for these for any type of situation that comes your way.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:That's very true. You have to be adaptable. You have to be flexible. You have to be that like, you know, that's the only way to go forward. So being adaptable and flexible is given and it's key.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:And the certification from CMA as well as CSEA tells us how to plan for change and change management. I think that's very important. Change management, right? Like, as they say, change is the only thing that's constant. And like, for me, it's like, you know, you uproot yourself and then reroute yourself.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:I actually literally had to uproot myself from Dubai, where I had like a set career. I had like a set everything, friend circle. I had everything set there. Come to a country where I know no one and then start from scratch. And hear the timelines, the requirements from managers, everything is very different.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:So though you work today, like your reviewing way of reviewing work is very different. Like people would review your work differently in Dubai. People would review your work differently here. So you literally have to uproot yourself and reroute yourself. It's just like, it's a total change that we have to go through.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:But I think that change is, the key point of that change is change management. Like how you do everything, how you keep yourself organized, how you keep yourself grounded during this change and how you set yourself up for success and not for failure because you have to like plan everything out. You cannot miss meeting new people because you need to make friends and improve your network in this country because you've moved to different countries. You still need to keep in touch with your old colleagues. It's a lot of things to manage and juggle at the same time.
Adam Larson:Charu, we were just talking about adaptability and how important that is when you're switching from country to country. And I don't know if you had anything to share around like how important adaptability was and how the things you've been learning in your education and certifications helped you be more adaptable and prepare you for that.
Charu Solanki:You know, as we were talking about work cultures and meeting different people, you need to adapt just in the way like Anjali was saying, in the way you network and the way you work, you sort of have to adapt yourself to the new region that you're in. But I think the key benefit of picking up these certifications, which are more global manager, I think they sort of mentally prepare you in a way that sort of helps you be more adaptable, because if you're learning about global roles already, it sort of mentally prepares you that if I'm in this part of the world, the rules are going to apply differently. If I'm in this part of the world, the rules may apply a bit differently. And then you sort of learn to add the culture bit to it. But I think taking a global certifications definitely give you that exposure in your current seat as a student.
Charu Solanki:And so it helps you prepare for what's to come by giving you a flavor of the world is not just the industry you see around yourself, but it's much bigger than what you study in your books in your undergraduate. And so it helps to just mentally prepare you to take things as it comes. It mentally prepares you for the fact that roles can change, but how you apply those roles, given your basics, remains consistent. So, what you learn in terms of analytics, in terms of risk appetite, in terms of making strategic decisions, that core remains the same. But how you apply that in different scenarios and different regions with different people can change.
Charu Solanki:Know, now I've worked in three different regions and I've been in finance all throughout. All I can say is the words in the rules may sound different, but they are all trying to achieve the same thing. They're all trying to achieve a low risk, high reward kind of situation, and they're all trying to maximize their profits. So that key of finance sort of remains the same, but I think these certifications equip you to apply those decisions in different aspects and give you that edge, you know, for others.
Adam Larson:So this has been a wonderful conversation. I really appreciate you both coming on and kind of sharing your expertise. And I figured we could end the conversation with maybe just some actual advice for an aspiring global finance leader, somebody who's listening to you and are inspired by that your your journey through in your current career. And maybe some advice that you'd want to give those folks if they were you could talk to them.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:It's never too early to start. You can start as early as you want in your career. Once you decide this is what you want, you could start your CMA journey while you're in university. You could start it when you're doing your graduation. You could still start it.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:So that's number one. You could always start it. It's never too early. Second thing is continuous learning. We have to continuously learn and upskill ourselves.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:Otherwise, technology will overtake us. The speed at which we learn and we grow our knowledge should be higher than the speed at which technology is growing. So that means we have to learn a lot and that continuous learning is what keeps us relevant. So we have to learn a lot. Third thing, once you take up a certification, I think the most important thing is to be prepared, understand it.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:You're not going to get the same questions that you try in your practice exam. This is not school where you would possibly have 10% chances of getting it. None of your questions are going to be the same. You need to understand the concepts, take the concepts clearly, and then apply the concepts. Nobody's asking you to repeat what is in the book back in the that's one thing.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:And the other thing is always be open for opportunities. Always be open for networking. Opportunities, it would not come knocking at your door. You can knock every single door and try to find an opportunity. Volunteer in a board, go to chapter events, try to see, talk to people who have completed certifications, understand all of this, because that makes you stand out.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:I always tell like, you know, the CSCA, when I took the CSCA, the first thing I did was how can I make myself competitive? How can I position myself competitively in all of these people who are doing finance? How can I stand out? Like, you know, what makes me stand out? I always wanted to figure out my niche because that's my selling point.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:That's my elevator pitch. That's my niche. Like, I want to tell them I have X, Y, Z experience. I've learned all of these skills and this is why I'm different from the others. This is why you should hire.
Charu Solanki:Think I have similar advice, which is, you know, to your point, cannot emphasize enough on the fact that grabbing opportunities is underrated. You know, like when you said, you don't have to wait for something and be very picky about, okay, only if this kind of role comes out, I'm going to apply for it or if this kind of, you know, will suffice. I think, you know, as you start your career, just pick up anything where you think there's growth, where you think there are learning opportunities for you. And you can always use that as a stepping stone to make a career towards where you eventually want to go. So no job is better or worse.
Charu Solanki:I feel like a job is a job and you have to be good at it to make your way to anything else. So whatever comes your way, always have an open mind and be flexible. I never thought I would end up in regulatory compliance back when I started in real estate. And I sort of charted a very different path for myself. And I think the second thing that goes hand in hand with this is also, as Anshu said, continuous learning.
Charu Solanki:So if you're not yet where you think you want to be in your career, I think what goes hand in hand with crafting opportunities is continuous learning and trying to make sure that you're always keeping yourself abreast with the industry that you eventually want to enter and opportunities will come your way. And third, but not the last thing, be there's no shortcut to hard work. So no matter whatever situation you are in, no matter what job you're in, no matter what position you are in, even as an analyst, you have to make sure that you're working hard to achieve your goals and portraying to your managers, to your colleagues, that you're really serious about where you are, right? You always have to sort of put that front over everything else. You can be really smart, but if you're not hardworking and others don't seek you as someone who's hardworking and serious about their jobs, then you're not gonna get anywhere.
Charu Solanki:So, you can always make sure you're taking whatever tasks you're given with utmost respect and giving it your best.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:Yeah, the new hard work is also smart work. You can work as hard as possible, but you need to do it smartly because only when you're doing work smartly, you're going to improvise the work and work towards efficiency. So I think like working towards efficiency and if you're doing the same task for fifteen months in a row or three months in a row, even you're doing, you're not doing justice to the task because you could have been improving it in some possible way and you're not been doing that. You need to try to work smartly because hard work, yes, you could work very hard, but then you could not be using your process improvements, efficiency, etcetera. So now, right now, the new generation hard work is hard work plus smart work together because you need to improvise each task that's given to you.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:That's how you're saving money for yourself and you're saving yourself from the future work that you're going to do.
Adam Larson:Well, thank you both so much for taking time out of your day to come on the podcast and sharing your experience with our audience. And we just really appreciate you coming on.
Unnamalai Ramanathan:Thank you so much. Thanks,
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