Adam Larson: 00:21

Hello and welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host Adam Larson. Today we're excited to have Deirdre Ryan, Global Finance Transformation Leader at joining us. With over thirty years of experience in advising financial executives and CFOs, Deirdre provides an in-depth look in the evolving role of the CFO in the digital age. In this episode, we discuss the key challenges CFOs face today, balancing short term gains with long term investments, driving innovation while mitigating risk, building future ready skills.

Adam Larson: 00:48

Deirdre Serra's insights on aligning digital strategies with business goals, managing costs, and utilizing data analytics to stay ahead in a competitive market. Additionally, she offers advice for retaining top talent and preparing for rapid technological advancements. This episode is full of practical insights and strategies to help you navigate the ever changing financial landscape. Let's dive in with our conversation with Deirdre Ryan. Well, Deirdre, I'm really excited to have you on the podcast today, and you've been advising and consulting for over thirty years with financial executives and CFOs.

Adam Larson: 01:26

I figured this is a great question to get us started. What are some of the specific challenges you see emerging in this digital age? You've seen it from before it became a real true digital age to now it's in this digital age. Is that? What do you see as the CFO role is continuing to evolve?

Deirdre Ryan: 01:41

You know, it's interesting. We actually did a survey at and we surveyed over a thousand CFOs and finance executives, and we asked them that exact question. What are the challenges that you're facing? And it was really interesting, Adam, because we found there were basically three major buckets, and I'm gonna just give you a little bit on each bucket. And each of the buckets is a bit of a paradox as well.

Deirdre Ryan: 02:06

So the first one, CFOs, finance executives, they're really trying to balance providing value today. So meeting sort of short term earnings targets with also investing for the long term, right? Because a lot of these digital technologies, some of them are expensive to put in place. And so you've got to make the right capital investments. So that's sort of the first bucket is how do I basically drive value now, but but invest for the long term?

Deirdre Ryan: 02:39

What's the right balance? So that's sort of the first. The second, you know, I remember back to when this one hits home for me personally, because I actually was running a finance function at one point. I haven't always been on the other side of the table. And I remember my CEO saying to me, Deirdre, your primary responsibility is to protect and preserve the assets of the organization.

Deirdre Ryan: 03:05

Do that and get the numbers right. Close the books and get the numbers right. And that is still expectation of a CFO and finance executives. They're going to mitigate risk and they're going to get the numbers right. But by the same token, they're being asked to drive innovation.

Deirdre Ryan: 03:23

Right? So be a role model around AI drive innovation. So again, it's another sort of paradox, right? So mitigate risk, but drive innovation. So, so that's the second challenge or opportunity, right?

Deirdre Ryan: 03:39

That they have. And the third is really around the talent. Everything is changing at such an unbelievable pace and finance organizations have to keep up, right? They need to build the skills and capabilities for the future. But by the way, they still need what you and I would consider sort of a traditional skill set, right?

Deirdre Ryan: 03:59

So I still need my CPAs. I still need my smart MBAs that are going to derive the so what from my numbers. But by the same token, I have to think about what are the skills I'm gonna need three years from now, five years from now, the digital savvy skill set, the data scientist. And how do I build those while still sort of doing everything that I need to do in a more traditional environment? So, you know, it's a question we ask CFOs and this is what we heard.

Deirdre Ryan: 04:29

And I have this discussion with a lot of CFOs and I said, does this resonate? And every single time you said spot on, right? Those are the exact challenges. So.

Adam Larson: 04:38

Wow, we could probably dig into each one of those challenges for an hour on this.

Deirdre Ryan: 04:43

Could spend an hour on each, but

Adam Larson: 04:45

so what I'm really hearing is that, you know, our CFOs are an integral part of things like the digital transformation within an organization. You know, obviously they have to look at, can we afford it? Can we pay for this? But then also does it align? And we have to like CFOs are more and more having to be involved in the technology side of things.

Adam Larson: 05:03

So how can how can those CFOs ensure that, you know, that they're making sure that this that these strategies align to deliver long term for the organization? Because you were just saying that they're only have to worry about the here and now, but also worry about the future.

Deirdre Ryan: 05:16

Yeah. You know, it's a question we get a lot. How do we align the digital strategy with the overall business strategy is is really, I think, what you're what you're trying to get at. So the first thing is, do they understand where the company's headed? Right?

Deirdre Ryan: 05:30

And and my friends know that I'm a hockey player. So I love to shamelessly plagiarize Wayne Gretzky and say, okay, when you think of your company's strategy, where is the puck? Right? You know, where do you want that puck to be? And then how do we skate to the puck?

Deirdre Ryan: 05:46

Yeah. And so the digital strategy is a critical component to that. And when we say digital strategy, I consider, you know, from a finance perspective, it's all of the automation, it's all of sort of getting your core ERP, all of the digital technologies around that AI, Gen AI, all of that is part of your digital strategy. It's, does the company know sort of where the puck is? Are they skating to the puck?

Deirdre Ryan: 06:11

And is the CFO supporting those decisions with what she or he is doing within their own organization? What is the digital strategy supporting? So for example, two things we come across frequently. One is, Hey, I have to significantly reduce cost, right? I want to remain competitive and I've got to cut cost.

Deirdre Ryan: 06:31

And, you know, there are digital strategies that are just targeting cost reduction, right? Then there are digital strategies that are actually enabling new capabilities. And so as companies enter into new product development or into different areas that they haven't been in before, sometimes those digital strategies have to enable that right entrance into a new arena in effect.

Adam Larson: 06:54

So yeah,

Deirdre Ryan: 06:55

it's important to understand what are we trying to achieve? What's the outcome we're trying to drive so that we can align our digital strategy to the outcome that we're trying to drive forwards?

Adam Larson: 07:05

Well, know digital strategy, no new digital undertaking is going to be free. There's going to be some sort of an investment into that. So you as the CFO have to look at it and say, Okay, does this align with the values that you're just saying? Does it align with our long term strategy? But also, can we afford it right now?

Adam Larson: 07:23

Is there something better? And so how do you how do you balance that conversation? Because obviously you want to drive the company forward and there's going to have to be some sort of investment. But what if it doesn't align cost wise?

Deirdre Ryan: 07:34

Yeah. You know, and it's so interesting. And a lot of the times that discussion is around technologies that are in place, they're getting very close to the end of life for the support that's being delivered by that provider, that software provider. And so they're being told, oh, you have to go to the next version. But sometimes going to the next version is very expensive.

Deirdre Ryan: 07:59

And, you know, there's a lot of factors that go into that, but that's a conversation lots of CFOs are having. Like, I'm being told I need to go to this next version, but it's incredibly costly. And do I take the chance to not have the support I've had historically for some period of time? Because right now, we just don't have the cash flow, for example, to do that.

Adam Larson: 08:20

Mhmm.

Deirdre Ryan: 08:22

I personally think that one of the challenges CFOs face around digital technologies in general is understanding and articulating upfront what's the value we're going to drive here. Right. We're not just slamming in software for software sake. Right. We have to be we're doing that for a reason, right?

Deirdre Ryan: 08:43

We're trying to drive value. But a lot of companies get so caught up in. I have to get to the next version of pick your favorite ERP, And they don't spend enough time upfront understanding and articulating the value that they're trying to drive. And they also fall short on the back end of actually realizing even if they have done a good job around the business case and these are the metrics we're driving towards, sometimes these programs take so long that they have fatigue at the end and they kind of forget, oh yeah, we were supposed to hold Susie and Bobby and Johnny accountable for realizing this savings and this value. And it doesn't always happen that way.

Adam Larson: 09:25

So how how can you get to a point where you're able to not let that happen to you is what I'm trying to say, what I'm trying to ask.

Deirdre Ryan: 09:33

Yeah. So there's a there are a few things that when I'm having this conversation with CFOs and finance executives that I believe are sort of table stakes to execute these digital strategies, these programs. Well, the first is have a really clear vision, like we said, right? Where's the puck? How are you skating to the puck?

Deirdre Ryan: 09:56

Yeah. But when I say vision, I don't mean a one sentence. This is who we want to be. Right? I mean, what's your end state architecture going to look like?

Deirdre Ryan: 10:05

What does this technology or capability? What's the impact on your operating model? Right? Yeah. You know, it's a very clear articulation of at the end of this, where are we going to be and what are we going to look like?

Deirdre Ryan: 10:20

And we actually partnered with Oxford, and we did a study with Oxford, and we actually looked at a thousand failed transformations. And what we found was companies and and almost all of those had a significant digital component. What we found was companies that really clearly articulated that vision upfront were over two and a half times more likely to succeed. So super, super important. Have a vision, right, which incorporates all the things that I talked about, and and really make sure everybody understands what that vision is and where you're headed.

Deirdre Ryan: 11:01

That's that's what I you know, to me, that's number one. Have a vision. Yeah. Number two, back to what we were saying about the outcomes. You have to have a pretty robust business case, right?

Deirdre Ryan: 11:12

So what are the what are the benefits? What are the outcomes we're trying to drive? And get alignment and agreement because sometimes people do a high back of the envelope. All right. Look at how much money we're going to save.

Deirdre Ryan: 11:25

And you haven't gotten the buy in of the other CxOs. Right. And some of your counterparts. So that's the second thing. Have a clear business case that's been aligned amongst the CxOs.

Deirdre Ryan: 11:37

And then and I know this sounds, you know, a little silly, but at the end of the day, hold people accountable for that business case. Yeah. Because as I was saying earlier, you know, a lot of these digital programs take years, right? As you progress and you get to the end of it, you know, even if you did a good job of I've set the vision, I've got my business case, but then you have fatigue after a while. And so at the end, the third thing I always say is be very clear who is accountable, right, to realize those benefits or or to make sure that people are adopting those new capabilities.

Deirdre Ryan: 12:16

So those those in my mind are the three things. Have a clear vision, have a have a aligned business case and hold people accountable for driving towards those benefits.

Adam Larson: 12:26

Yeah. Well, and I can imagine if if these the larger your organization is, the harder it is to make these types of transitions. And when you start one year and let's say you're going to implement three years later, the technology may have improved or changed and you're like, is this still the best technology? And that's that's probably an even even crazier scenario that I'm sure people run into, especially with the pace that technology is changing these days.

Deirdre Ryan: 12:51

Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. I'm actually doing a presentation in June for a significant number of CFOs, and I was on a prep call for And that's months away. And I was on a prep call and the client said, you know, we should start to look about and think about the materials and I'm doing some demos and things.

Deirdre Ryan: 13:10

And I jokingly said, except in June, I'll be talking about something totally different.

Adam Larson: 13:15

Yeah.

Deirdre Ryan: 13:16

Right. And between now and then we'll have seen such such advancement that it's probably best if we if we catch up the week before and I can show you what's the latest and greatest.

Adam Larson: 13:25

I mean, that's really what it comes down to, especially when you're trying to you're addressing your needs. But as things change, those needs will. Will adjust and you'll be like, Wait, I can solve it this way instead of that way.

Deirdre Ryan: 13:38

Yeah, exactly.

Adam Larson: 13:39

So, you know, so as an organization, you know, we know that especially in the finance and accounting team, data and analytics is, you know, is the driving thing behind a lot of the decisions that we make, you know? So how important are data analytics, especially when you're going when you're looking to do a digital transformation, you're looking to improve things, but then you realize, wait, my data is not in the right place or it can it can expose some things as well.

Deirdre Ryan: 14:04

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. About a year ago, I brought some of the people that I thought were our best thought leaders at in the finance space together. And we said, hey, let's let's really think about the future of finance, right?

Deirdre Ryan: 14:19

In very practical terms, what do we think finance will look like three years out, five years out? And how do we advise our clients to help them gain or retain a competitive advantage? And at the end of the day, Adam, spoiler alert, it actually all comes back to the data. And so our POV and obviously it's much more detailed than this, but at the end of the day, we think finance is just going to continue to be a very data centric function that's going to be expected to drive significant value.

Adam Larson: 14:52

Right?

Deirdre Ryan: 14:52

And so data data is at the core. It's at the core. And, you know, it's interesting. I've been telling clients for a long time, clean up your data, right? Yeah.

Deirdre Ryan: 15:05

I mean, twenty years, right? This has been the mantra. Clean your data, clean your data. And I have CFOs say to me, alright, you've telling me that forever. And my answer is yes, but now you actually have to do it.

Deirdre Ryan: 15:16

Now you actually have to do it because you can't leverage these technologies unless you have the right data in place. Now you don't have to do it all at once. And so I typically have a pretty robust conversation about how do we prioritize cleaning that data and aggregating that data so that, you know, you're you're doing the analysis that's actually going to differentiate you from your competitors.

Adam Larson: 15:42

Yeah.

Deirdre Ryan: 15:42

But 100%, it's it's paramount. It's it's I think the most critical thing that finance organizations can do to prepare for what's coming and actually what's here now, not even what's coming, what's here now, and being able to optimize the use of these amazing technologies that are now at our disposal.

Adam Larson: 16:01

Well, because if your data is in good shape, when it's time to analyze and make clear decisions, you become more agile because you're confident the data that you have.

Deirdre Ryan: 16:10

100%. One hundred %.

Adam Larson: 16:14

So when I was asking you about challenges, the third I believe the third thing you said was about teams and having your teams in good shape and the people who are analyzing that data for you as a CFO, the people who are doing the work, are getting in in the nitty gritty is your team. So, you know, as you're talking to different CFOs, you know, how are what are they doing to make sure that they keep in the retain that top talent for their team to make sure that they're in the best position?

Deirdre Ryan: 16:37

Yeah. So it's interesting because I think the skill set that's required to be successful in the finance function is really changing dramatically. We touched on that a little bit. Right? You still need need your traditional CPAs and MBAs, but you do need for people to come up the learning curve and be very digitally savvy and have to understand these technologies.

Deirdre Ryan: 17:03

So to your question, okay, so as that's happening, a lot of the folks in finance who did a ton of manual work, right? A lot of that's been automated, right? So a lot of the transaction processing that historically, you know, ten, fifteen, twenty years ago was a lot of manual effort. You know, as companies automate that and they try to bring that skill set up to your point, right? You need to identify who are the people that are going to be able to come up the learning curve and how do I keep them?

Deirdre Ryan: 17:36

Yeah. So there are a lot of different strategies around that, but but one of the things that I personally thinks think works really well is there's a lot that finance has to do. So identify who those high performing people are and put them in charge of like the cool, sexy projects that you're starting out on. So for example, I'll give you a specific example. A lot of finance functions are dipping their toe in AI and Gen AI.

Deirdre Ryan: 18:02

Right? Most have not implemented a robust program yet within finance. And so identify those high potential, right? Those like eager, thoughtful people that want to learn and put them in charge of the POC around AI within within finance. So that's one strategy.

Deirdre Ryan: 18:21

Right? Give them strategic projects of importance outside of their day jobs. The second thing that I've seen work really well is a rotational program. Some companies have these, others don't. I actually went through one when I was starting out my career.

Deirdre Ryan: 18:36

And so if you find those high talent people in finance, right, rotate them in different roles within the business, within finance, at the corporate level, and give them the opportunity to have a broader perspective on the company because it's going to make them a much better business partner when they come back into the finance organization. So those are the two things I've seen that I think work really well.

Adam Larson: 19:01

Yeah. Well, and if it's a smaller organization, a lot of times people within the finance team have to wear many of the hats that you were just saying, oh, you can go test that out, but sometimes they have to do that all the time.

Deirdre Ryan: 19:11

True. That's absolutely true. I mean, I just, I typically work with larger organizations that are a bit more siloed, but a %. And actually that's a great learning ground, right? If you're in a smaller company and you can play multiple roles and have varied experiences, I just think that makes you a better professional long term.

Adam Larson: 19:31

It really does. And those are some of the skills that if you've been ingrained in a finance and accounting team, you know, for your whole career and never seen any other aspects, it might be more difficult to kind of try to obtain some of these more digital savvy things that are coming your way. Are there strategies that you've seen CFOs to take trying up this upskill their teams in a better way?

Deirdre Ryan: 19:52

Well, I'll tell you what I did with my team because as we advise clients, right? So we have to be ahead of the curve.

Adam Larson: 19:58

Yeah.

Deirdre Ryan: 20:00

So so we actually believe it or not, we have the largest private LLM in the world. Wow. So we've built what we call and that allows the folks that sit in my practice to get their hands dirty. Right? Because how do you really come up the curve with these technologies?

Deirdre Ryan: 20:19

You learn how to use them, right? And you play with them and you try different things out. And I mean, one of the first things that I learned when we introduced this tool was it's all about how you ask the question, right? So it's about how you're prompting the ad to answer you. But these are things if you haven't gotten your hands dirty, you don't know, right?

Deirdre Ryan: 20:43

So we've done a couple of things, but one is we've allowed our folks to get their hands dirty, to play around, to learn, to come up the learning curve. And then the other thing that I did was I brought in an external company to do some really intense training. And I think that's important as well, right? Because you can't it's very different to read an article than it is to actually write, execute prompts and leverage AI to write, replace some manual effort that you had. So you gotta just test it out and learn.

Deirdre Ryan: 21:15

And then you can really start to think about what is the art of the possible here. Right? If you don't know how the technologies work, you can't even think about what does this mean for my organization? How can I leverage this to drive value and improve what we're doing on a daily basis?

Adam Larson: 21:31

Well, I think that's a big part of having a diverse workforce of being able to expose them to different environments because, you know, you were brought up in one way, I may have been brought up in a different way and you come together and we see

Deirdre Ryan: 21:42

things from a different You're significantly older than me, Adam. Yes,

Adam Larson: 21:45

I am. I am significantly older than you. But because because of that diversity that we have, I would see things from a different light than you have because of the experiences I've had, you know, and what you just described, I think, is a beautiful way of bringing in different voices into your atmosphere. Everybody can't have the can't have walked the same path because then you'll have the same answers all the time. You need everybody's exposed to different things.

Adam Larson: 22:10

So that way you can think outside of the box that you put yourself in, because a lot of times in corporate America, we put ourselves in a box and we have to do extreme things to break out of that.

Deirdre Ryan: 22:19

Yeah. Yeah. I think these technologies these technologies are disrupting that.

Adam Larson: 22:26

Yeah.

Deirdre Ryan: 22:27

Right?

Adam Larson: 22:27

Big time.

Deirdre Ryan: 22:29

And I you know, you'll hear a lot and I'm sure you have heard a lot of different perspectives on how impactful these technologies are going to be. Yeah. But I'm convinced. I'm convinced. And and in the finance space in particular.

Deirdre Ryan: 22:44

Now, I do think there are sort of two buckets when I think about it. And one bucket is you can leverage these technologies to drive productivity. Yeah. And that's that's fine. There's nothing that's a good thing.

Deirdre Ryan: 22:58

It's not a bad thing. But there have been a lot of tools around for a long time to drive productivity. Right? If you remember death by a thousand cuts, RPA, right there. Yeah.

Deirdre Ryan: 23:07

There have been a lot of things out there. So that's not a bad thing. And certainly we should look to see how we can leverage to do that, to drive productivity. But I think the game changer is around decision making and insight because these technologies can mine data the way humans couldn't before. Right?

Deirdre Ryan: 23:29

We we just don't have the capacity to mine data the way that AI can, and it is going to have a significant impact on mining that data, making decisions, and providing insight. So and I've seen it, and I think it's a game changer.

Adam Larson: 23:44

It really is a game changer because between the AI being able to analyze it in a way that we've never seen before, it allows us to be better decision makers because I've heard of many people say that AI is great, but you still need some HI, some human intelligence as well. Those two together, we can make amazing decisions. You can't just let the AI make all the decisions because there's elements that it doesn't understand.

Deirdre Ryan: 24:06

Right. %. I mean, I think it does a phenomenal job of mining that data and bringing the insight, but then the humans, right, the finance executives, the CFO, they have to decide how am I gonna act on that. Yeah. How am I gonna act on that?

Deirdre Ryan: 24:20

It's interesting because, you know, over the past few months, I've talked to a lot of CFOs about AI. And as I said, I really think the game changer is providing that insight. But it's interesting because if you ask a CFO, well, what's the analysis? If you could do that, like, on a dime, what's the analysis that would give you a competitive advantage? And you'd be surprised that not all CFOs can answer that question because they haven't had the ability to think that way before.

Deirdre Ryan: 24:55

Right? They're used to sort of waiting for the reporting, the management reporting or waiting for the insight. And the question is, if you had the ability, like instantaneously to run a scenario or to run an analysis, do you know which one would give you a competitive advantage? It's a really interesting conversation and it's it's the strategic thinking, That that you were talking about before. It's coming up that curve and thinking much more strategically.

Adam Larson: 25:26

Could you maybe generically share some of the answer people have asked to that answer to that question? Because I'm really curious at how they would answer that. Like, are there some common themes that you've seen when they've answered that question?

Deirdre Ryan: 25:37

So I have been told by my person that I'm not allowed to share client stories, but what I can tell you is that it's very sector specific. Okay. Understandably, right? So if you're a large pharma company, it might be X. If you're a consumer products company, it might be Y.

Deirdre Ryan: 25:56

So the answer to that question is very logically dependent upon your sector or your industry.

Adam Larson: 26:03

Of course. Of course, that's it.

Deirdre Ryan: 26:05

But I I believe that the company that gets there first, that leverages these tools to drive that insight, once they've identified what is that, you know, what is that silver bullet that's going to give us an advantage if we can do this analysis quickly? They are going to have an advantage.

Adam Larson: 26:23

Yeah, they're going to have a huge advantage if they can answer that question, be able to answer that question. That way, when they see the answer listed on their, you know, whatever the response is from whatever their analysis they're doing, they'd be like, this is the answer I've been looking for. Let's go. And so are there questions that people should ask themselves so that they can be ready to answer that question? Because answering asking that question, I don't know if they can answer it right away, especially they don't know.

Adam Larson: 26:47

What are some other questions they can ask themselves to be ready?

Deirdre Ryan: 26:49

Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because even last week, I spent a couple hours with a CFO and he couldn't answer the question. Yeah. And he said, You know what? As soon as I get back to my office, I'm pulling my team together and we need an answer to that, right?

Deirdre Ryan: 27:06

We need to be able to articulate what do we need to do in a really timely way from an insight mining data that we couldn't mine before to drive that. So even if they can't answer it on the spot, I think it is pushing CFOs and financing sex and their teams to think more strategically about the analysis that they're doing. And to your question earlier, that's why the data is so critical, because sometimes the answer in this happened with one of our clients, they knew the answer, but they weren't collecting the data, right, to do that analysis. Was a it was a very specific piece of operational data and an external data, and some external data that they needed as well. And so they could answer the question, Hey, if I knew this and I could get that answer quickly, wow, that would really help me manage the bottom line.

Deirdre Ryan: 27:59

And then when they took a step back, they said, Well, the problem is that we're not collecting that data consistently in a clean way, and we need some external data points as well. So it goes back to what we were talking about before that that's why when I look, you know, a few years out and most finance functions, knock on wood, right, have leveraged these world class ERPs, and they've automated a lot of the transaction processing. What are they gonna, you know, what are they gonna be doing? They're gonna be trying to drive that insight to gain a competitive advantage, to drive value. And so much of that is based on how you're collecting, aggregating and analyzing the data.

Adam Larson: 28:38

Well, if your data is not in a good spot, it might take you a couple of years to get it to a point where you can answer your little questions and you have to you have to be okay, look, okay, This is part of our plan now is getting to that Exactly.

Deirdre Ryan: 28:50

And some of these things, you can't do them overnight, right? And it's interesting because listen, feel for CFOs. Their jobs have evolved. You know, when I was running a finance function, the most important thing I had to do was get the books closed. Right?

Deirdre Ryan: 29:04

Just just close the books, get the numbers right. Now they have so much on their plate. Right? They're expected to be the strategic partner. They're expected to, like, be implementing these technologies.

Deirdre Ryan: 29:15

They're expected to be properly allocating capital and dealing with investor. I mean, there's so much on their plate.

Adam Larson: 29:22

Yeah.

Deirdre Ryan: 29:22

It it's hard. Right? But that's where, you know, hopefully, we can help and we can advise and we can bring them up the curve and get them on the right path.

Adam Larson: 29:31

Definitely. Well, Deirdre, I am so excited that we had this conversation. I just wanna thank you so much for coming on the podcast

Deirdre Ryan: 29:37

you, Adam. It was really nice to to be with you, and I hope you have a great day.

Announcer: 29:43

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