Adam Larson: 00:21

Welcome back to another episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson. And today, we're excited to welcome Stacy Chazin, the founder and principal coach at I-factor Leadership. Stacey is a champion for introverted professionals, especially those in the finance and accounting sectors. In this episode, Stacey dismantles common myths about introverts, showcasing their strengths in presenting, leadership, and thriving in the workplace.

Adam Larson: 00:44

We'll dive into her meeting playbook for introverts, tips for adapting to post COVID work environments, and practical strategies for managing energy and extroverted design workplaces. Additionally, Stacy shares how the Myers Briggs type indicator helped her embrace her introversion and the critical role of self awareness and career success. Whether an introvert looking to thrive or a leader seeking to build an inclusive workplace, this episode is a must listen. Join us as we uncover how to turn introversion into a powerful strength. Let's get started.

Adam Larson: 01:21

Well, Stacy, thanks so much for coming on Count Me In. And today, we're gonna be talking about introverts because you're really passionate about helping introverts unlock their strengths and especially in leadership positions because introverts can be leaders too. So what what what inspired you to focus on this this kind of topic, this niche topic, particularly within the finance and accounting world? How can how can we help introverts? Because a lot of finance and accountants are focused on the numbers, focused on things, and not necessarily extroverts.

Stacey Chazin: 01:48

Yep. Great question. So it might not surprise you. One of the the core reasons I decided to to focus on this space is because I am an introvert, and I had a number of experiences in my life that made me realize that I had made my introversion a limiting belief for myself. Messages, really when I really thought about it, I realized messages that I probably heard since I was in preschool.

Stacey Chazin: 02:10

And messages that you need to play with more kids. You need to sit stay in circle time the whole time. You need to, it's better to be playing with with all the kids on the playground rather than off on your own or having more friends rather than fewer friends. And we hear messages like this as we're growing up. Right?

Stacey Chazin: 02:24

That it's better to be going out on Saturday nights when you're in high school more than sitting home with a good book or watching a movie or to have a a bigger circle of friends rather than a few close friends. And the messages continue as we go into professional spheres. We hear that whether explicitly or implicitly, that to be a leader, you need to be outgoing. You need to be social. You need to be dynamic and willing to sit down and engage with folks and collaborate all the time.

Stacey Chazin: 02:51

And first of all, that's not true, and I'll talk about that in a minute. But second of all, what it does to people like me who are introverted, it tells us that we're somehow less than. That the way we operate, which is based on the way we're wired, our preferences, how we how we're apt to show up as our best is somehow inferior to the way other people do it. And I heard that message through my childhood in the early and mid stages of my career, and it really had a negative impact on what I thought I was capable of as a professional and as a leader. Right?

Stacey Chazin: 03:23

So it was this limiting belief that as an introvert, I couldn't lead, or I wasn't gonna be inspiring or motivating Mhmm. Or or be successful in many ways. And I had some experiences I that started with completing a Myers Briggs type indicator assessment or MBTI, which, for any of your listeners not familiar, MBTI, it's the world's most commonly used personality assessment, and it uncovers your preferences along a few different dimensions, one of which is how you get energy from the world. And those of us who tend to be fueled by the outside world are considered extroverted or have a preference for extroversion. And those of us who are fueled more by being in small groups or being in our own thoughts and going deeply into things are considered to have a preference for introversion.

Stacey Chazin: 04:08

And going through that process, I'm reading my own MBTI report. When I read that, I I say it was like a window to my soul. I thought, like, this is this is how I'm wired. This is me. And it said to me, you have all these gifts.

Stacey Chazin: 04:21

You have all these strengths. Stop pretending that, that they're inferior. Stop trying to act like the extroverts because when we anytime we try to pretend to be something we're not, we're likely not gonna succeed. And it really shifted how I viewed my professional trajectory and what I bring to the table. And once I started thinking about my introversion from a place of value rather than a place of deficit, it really it really shifted things for me.

Stacey Chazin: 04:50

And I got bit by the leadership bug and decided to go back to school, get a master's in organizational development and leadership, and came out of that program really believing that leading from a place of self awareness, including our introversion, is that's the path to true success and true accomplishment and happiness. And I now work with other introverted professionals to help them see how they can get there to do the same thing.

Adam Larson: 05:21

It's crazy that in the process of of of reflecting and understanding your introversion, you've gone to help others, which isn't a natural introverted thing to do in, like, if you look at very typical introversion, like, activities.

Stacey Chazin: 05:38

That's a great point. Yeah. It's a great point. And what I would say is the caveat to that is one of the myths about introverts is that we don't like people. Right?

Stacey Chazin: 05:46

Completely false.

Adam Larson: 05:48

Yeah.

Stacey Chazin: 05:48

We don't necessarily like to talk to 20 people at once or to be engaging with people for several hours on end. But we do tend to like to have 1 on 1 conversations and to go more deeply with individuals. So working as a coach for other introverts in many ways is aligned with introversion.

Adam Larson: 06:07

Okay. Okay. I like that. So when we when you and I first spoke, you mentioned a number that really stuck out to me. You said that 75% of accountants are introverts.

Announcer: 06:16

You know, why do you think introversion is so prevalent in this field, and how does that impact the way accountants approach their work? Great question. So I think and this is based on my knowledge and expertise in introversion, not an expertise in the accounting field, but many of the tasks

Stacey Chazin: 06:33

and and roles that accountants are asked to play are aligned with the strengths of being an introvert.

Adam Larson: 06:37

Right.

Stacey Chazin: 06:38

And and I wanna say just as a caveat that I'm talking in generalization. So not every introvert has these strengths. Introverts tend to on the whole, they're gonna tend to have a subset or if not all of the traits I'm gonna talk about, but it it absolutely is gonna vary by person. That being said, introverts tend to excel in preparation. We have a very strong attention to detail.

Stacey Chazin: 07:03

We like to go deep in subject matter expertise in a project, so not just to skim the surface on different topics or work across to 10 different projects or type of work, but to focus in one area. We tend to be very thoughtful.

Adam Larson: 07:16

Yeah.

Stacey Chazin: 07:17

And we like to work alone or in small groups. Many of these preferences are aligned with typical roles of finance or accounting professionals. And while I I like to say and I believe that as an introvert, you can pretty much do any job in the world, With the exception maybe of you probably don't wanna be a front desk receptionist or working at a at a, you know, at a as in a cashier role, anything where you're constantly engaging with the public, that might be a little too draining for insurance. But for the most part, we can do any job. However, we're likely to be drawn to the types of jobs that are gonna let us use these strengths.

Stacey Chazin: 07:51

Mhmm. Because we're gonna see that we're gonna be able to do our jobs better. We're gonna feel more fulfilled by what we're doing, and we're gonna have a bigger opportunity to let our strengths shine. People are gonna see us for all the the assets that we bring to the table.

Adam Larson: 08:08

That makes sense. Now, you know, you mentioned that you're gonna speak in generalizations today. Maybe we can start by breaking down some of the stereotypes that that surround introvert. So we can kind of say, hey. Here's the stereotypes, but these aren't necessarily true.

Stacey Chazin: 08:25

Mhmm. Mhmm. I love that question. So first and foremost, at a high level, the myth that introverts can't be can't be leaders. There's very much an extrovert ideal or an extrovert stereotype bias in in the world, including in workplaces in particular, that you need to be extroverted to lead.

Stacey Chazin: 08:44

However, introverts have a lot of key strengths that actually set us up to be very powerful and effective leaders. For example, introverts tend to be highly empathetic, highly emotionally intelligent. We're very good at forming relationships with people in ways that make them think that we care, see that we care, not just think that we care. We also tend to do very well, and this is this is a myth related to that. People think that introverts don't like to talk in front of big groups, that we don't like to present, when in fact presenting and talking in front of a big group is very well aligned with being an introvert, and I will tell you why.

Stacey Chazin: 09:20

Because, typically, when you're in front of an audience behind a podium or whatnot, 1, you have you have the opportunity to prepare. No one's just throwing you up on the stage and saying, give a presentation on the impact of this policy in our field. So you have the opportunity to prepare, to practice, to go deep in your subject matter expertise. Introverts are also very they're tend to be highly analytic, so we're very good at pulling together the data we need to build evidence for a point we're making or the proposition of our presentation. We're also we tend to be very good storytellers, and that's because many introverts are voracious readers.

Stacey Chazin: 09:55

So we've we've kind of have that narrative thing ingrained in us from all the reading that we've done. And lastly, this is my favorite one. When you're up on the stage presenting or in front of a big group, you don't have to make small talk. Right? You're you're behind the podium.

Stacey Chazin: 10:09

No one's coming up to you. You might have to answer some questions afterward, but you're kind of removed from the rest of the audience in your safe, little introverted bubble up there. And so you can talk, you can put your expertise on full display, but you don't need to make that uncomfortable for many of us, that uncomfortable small talk that makes us kinda wanna run for the door sometimes.

Adam Larson: 10:31

Yeah. Definitely. Because when when you're in a big group setting or when you're presenting like that, you know, you don't have that. I never thought about it from that perspective of Yeah. There is a large group of people, but you don't have to interact with all them.

Adam Larson: 10:41

You're just presenting something you've spent a lot of time preparing as opposed to, you know, being put on stage and say, hey. Talk 5 minutes about this subject. You're like

Stacey Chazin: 10:49

Right. Exactly. So there's that. Another big myth is, well, let me tell you why the myth happens, then I'll tell you what the myth is. So often when we're in meetings and someone asks us a question or someone's looking for a big idea, it's the extroverts who are likely gonna speak first because extroverts do their processing out loud.

Stacey Chazin: 11:07

They might not have thought something through thoroughly. They wanna see how it sounds when it comes out of their mouth and see how other people respond to it. While introverts like we like to take our time.

Adam Larson: 11:16

Mhmm. We like

Stacey Chazin: 11:17

to process to give things some thought. If it's a question we haven't expected, we might wanna go look back at some data to see, alright, before I put my idea out there, what what are the data saying about this problem or about the solution I'm proposing? And what happens is all too often, people equate quickness of a response with intelligence

Adam Larson: 11:36

Mhmm.

Stacey Chazin: 11:37

And and thought leadership. So when you see the people, you say, well, he came up with the idea right away, or she, you know, she immediately know what we should do. Now these I these ideas may or may not be correct, but they're not necessarily gonna be better than the ideas that an introvert's gonna have when they come back to you a half hour later or the next day or maybe have an opportunity to give you their idea in writing, which is where we tend to shine more than than verbally in in a lot of cases. So that leads to the myth that we're we're not strategic thinkers or we're not thought leaders to the extent that extroverted people are.

Adam Larson: 12:13

When I when I first got into the corporate environment, I always wondered why I had trouble, speaking in meetings because I would always come up with great ideas later. And But? I I had to kind of I had to kind of come to terms with the fact that, hey. I might have not have the first idea, but I had to learn how to process things in my own way and still be able to participate in those meetings. Maybe I'll maybe I'll add an idea at the end of the meeting as opposed to 2 days later.

Stacey Chazin: 12:39

And I actually I'll I'll share with you for the, call notes. If you look, I have a link to I created a meeting playbook for introverts. So ways to have your voice heard and your idea shine in meetings. And, it's available at ifactorgift.com. I'll send you that link Yeah.

Stacey Chazin: 12:54

To the guide. And it just has some ways talking about how you can prepare ahead of time, how you can show up at the meeting, and what you can do after the meeting. All different ways that you can set yourself up to to create forums and environments where you do have that opportunity to to have your thought leadership and your ideas heard.

Adam Larson: 13:12

For sure. And we'll put that link in the show notes for everybody listening because I think that'll be really great to, to connect with that and have some new ideas for folks as they're trying to navigate these waters.

Stacey Chazin: 13:23

Great. Yeah. I think folks

Announcer: 13:24

will really appreciate that. Thank you. So one thing that, you know, we we and we're in

Adam Larson: 13:29

having this conversation. I'm sure that the last 4 or 5 years since, you know, since, COVID 19 hit the the world, and we had so many, changes to our work life balance and people working from home completely and then maybe having to transition back to the office. You know, I'm sure it's been a huge challenge for folks, especially if they got comfortable working from home, you know, sitting late, relaxing in their bed, you know, answering emails and taking calls for from wherever and then suddenly having to transition back to that office. You know, what challenges do especially introverts face when they're shifting from working from home back to the office and maybe hybrid situations and, you know, it's it's really kinda jolting as with all the challenges with everything that's happening.

Stacey Chazin: 14:14

Absolutely right. And and for as tragic as COVID was, for many introverts, there was some comfort in not having to go into an office every day and to be able to just hunker down, and do our work with with less engagement. And certainly, we've gotten used to Zoom, but it certainly requires us to be I think it's less energy draining. It still is it still drains our energy, but

Adam Larson: 14:33

it's Yeah.

Stacey Chazin: 14:34

Very different environment. Right? You can turn your camera off if need be, or you you can step away in different ways. But for introverts, so we we had this shift back. Right?

Stacey Chazin: 14:42

I think I don't know what the data say, but I think the majority of workplaces still are either fully remote or hybrid. I often find that it's the exception when I hear about companies that require their employees to be on-site 5 days a week these days. So so maybe you're in a hybrid environment. And I think to fully answer this question, I need to first say that most workplaces are designed with extroverts in mind. So when you think about open open layout spaces where you have cubicles next to each other, even if they have some kind of walls or partitions up in between them, you've got demands to you know, if you go to the ladies' room, if you go to the kitchen, you're running into people.

Stacey Chazin: 15:20

Most companies that you'll have meetings that are scheduled back to back, not necessarily with any recognition that people need a little time in between to recharge. And and there's a lot of pressure to network, whether or to even if it's with people you've already met, but to collaborate in person. So being being in an on-site role can be a lot more training for introverts. And so what I would say is there are practices that we've done at home when we've when we've worked virtually that you can think about applying to your in person work. So, for example, you can't turn your camera off at work, but try to if if you can take a 10 minute walk in between meetings, block your calendar, see if possible for you to to be able to say, alright.

Stacey Chazin: 16:03

I'm gonna need 2:30 minute breaks today where I just need to not be with people. And to the extent that you can, schedule those those breaks. And whether that means taking a walk, if you can go outside, walking the halls of your company, plugging into a podcast at your desk, whatever that looks like. Another thing that you can do, and this applies to being at home or site, is to do task batching. And what that means is to group similar types of tasks together over the course of your day.

Stacey Chazin: 16:34

So and what that means is a type of task might be administrative work. You're completing your time sheets. You're preparing invoices. You're responding to emails that don't require a lot of thought. Another type of task might be something more creative or strategic, like writing a proposal or, writing a report.

Stacey Chazin: 16:52

For introverts, the process of when we switch between tasks that are very different, like administrative versus, versus creative or strategic, it tends to drain our energy more than it does extroverts. So if you can group all a particular type of task together particular type of tasks together, so you're not doing that task type switching throughout the day. You're gonna be more likely to preserve your energy.

Adam Larson: 17:21

So what would you say to somebody who wears many hats on their role? And especially for people in financial leadership who are in small, medium sized businesses businesses, they wear many hats, and they have to do a lot of those roles. You know, how do you what if you can't, like, group all your meetings together? What if, you know, you have this one to this one to this one, and you just you don't have a choice? Like, how are there some ways to kind of manage those, you know, those things where where it's outside of your control?

Stacey Chazin: 17:49

Yeah. So I think well, what I'd first say is if if as a rule, if more often than not, you can do it, great. It doesn't have to be in all the time this is gonna happen. If you start to set the expectation too with your team members that this is the time of day I'm doing these type of tasks Okay. You know, this is the time of day I'm doing the others, It's not gonna be a fail safe.

Stacey Chazin: 18:12

Right? There are always gonna be or often there are gonna be times where when you're gonna need to to switch in the other direction, then you need to do that. But, I think if you're if you're remote, I think one of the things you can do is you can turn your camera off for for a meeting. I've read a lot of a a lot of evidence that turning your camera off reduces that that stress of connecting with other people and feeling like you're you're being you're being looked at and scrutinized. So that can help you to to alleviate some of that stress.

Stacey Chazin: 18:43

If it's a meeting where you don't have to be taking notes, could you do the meeting while you're taking a walk outside? That could be a way to just the movement of your body can help to to instill some calmness and make it a little less stressful for you.

Adam Larson: 18:58

Yeah. Or even get one of those desks that you can, that you have, like, a treadmill underneath. You can walk while you're in the meeting.

Stacey Chazin: 19:04

Yep. Yep. Yep. I have one of those. I have one of those pedals that got a little bike that goes into my desk.

Stacey Chazin: 19:10

I probably only used it twice, but I have it. And I I could use it if I want to. But, yeah, anything that can help to help to fuel and protect your your mind and your that mind body connection and keep you keep you reinvigorated is a wonderful thing.

Adam Larson: 19:27

Yeah. One thing, you know, our team my team our team started was, you know, in in Outlook, you can set your default time instead of at 30 minutes or 60 minutes. You can set it to 25 or 50 minutes. And so we started scheduling our meetings. So default, there's a 5 minute break after a meeting.

Adam Larson: 19:42

And so if you if you stay on task and end your meeting on time, you've given everybody a 5 minute break before whatever their next task is. And I think being kind to each other in that way and saying, hey, guys. Let's be mindful of each other's time. This may be a great topic. And if we're gonna go over, we say, hey, everybody.

Adam Larson: 19:57

We're about to go over. Does anybody need to go? And I think we need to be more cognizant of how people are feeling and the breaks that people need. Because if everybody has back to back to back, you barely have time to breathe.

Stacey Chazin: 20:08

Yep. Yeah. And and for many extroverts, that's fine. But I would argue that as a rule, it's not so great. Right?

Stacey Chazin: 20:13

You wanna have time to to get your thoughts together, to get your head in the space so that you're you're able to contribute to the next call productively and in a way that is gonna show your best thinking, your best creativity, height and focus, etcetera.

Adam Larson: 20:28

Yeah. So let's say an introvert is listening to this and they're like, well, I my goal is to be a leader in my organization and, you know, whatever capacity that is. Are there some strategies? Because, you know, you've already mentioned that, you know, typical leadership that everybody thinks about is geared toward an extrovert. Are there some strategies or some ways to rec to effectively present themselves as a good leadership candidate even though that the the extroverted person might be the star pupil or whatever?

Adam Larson: 20:57

You know, how can they kinda say, hey. I wanna I wanna stand out in this moment?

Stacey Chazin: 21:01

Yeah. Excellent question. And I talk about this in terms of building your personal brand as a leader.

Adam Larson: 21:06

Yeah.

Stacey Chazin: 21:07

When you're introverted. And all the strategies I teach and then I I guide my coaching clients with are all rooted in the notion of what's called your your positive core. And your positive core, it's an idea from a coaching framework called appreciative coaching that I use. And the idea is instead of focusing on what your deficits are, what you need to fix, you know, I need to be a better writer. I need to be, a better team player, you know, a better whatever, to focus on what is it that you're really good at?

Stacey Chazin: 21:37

What are your strengths? And how can you bring those strengths to the table? And how can you use those to show not only can you put not only can how do you put your strengths to work, but how can you use your strengths to showcase your work?

Adam Larson: 21:50

Okay.

Stacey Chazin: 21:50

And so with that in mind, when we're thinking about how do you build your personal brand as a leader when you are introverted, we think about things like introverts tend to be, like we've talked about, very thoughtful. They have deep subject matter expertise. They tend to be good writers. So one thing you might wanna do is look for introvert friendly ways to showcase your thought leadership. That could be curating a blog.

Stacey Chazin: 22:14

It could be contributing posts to someone else's blog. It could be writing a memo with strategic recommendations for some problem you're solving. We tend to do very well in 1 on 1 interaction. So it could be scheduling a quarterly check-in with your manager where you talk about what your goals are and being really clear on what you need to do, what what she needs to see from you in order for you to progress and meet those goals. So tapping into that that one on one, that thoughtful preparation, that, you know, really good with a pen.

Stacey Chazin: 22:44

So that's one thing you can do. Another thing is to have conversations and engagements with people that are in smaller groups for 1 on 1. So maybe you're having you make a goal that once a month or once every 2 weeks, you wanna have lunch or coffee with a colleague where you wanna be able to you set some goal for the meeting where you wanna be able to you wanna be communicating that you really are, a strategic thinker or you're very good at problem solving. And it's not like, hey. You know, John, John, I wanna tell you how good I am at solving problems, but you're talking about things that you've done that demonstrate that prowess.

Adam Larson: 23:22

Mhmm.

Stacey Chazin: 23:23

So that's another thing to do. It's not you know, you're not gonna be the one at a sitting around the conference table, touting touting your accomplishments. That's just not you. The other thing I recommend is keeping, really creating a portfolio over the course of the year of different contributions that you've made, how you've the work that you've done, what what you've achieved, and even more importantly, how what you achieved contributed to the team's goals or the organization's goals. Keep a file in your email.

Stacey Chazin: 23:50

Create a new a new folder that's, you know, examples of how I'm great or a great feedback I've received. And anytime someone sends you an email that acknowledges a contribution you've made or acknowledges a strength that you have, put it in there. Mhmm. So that come the end of the year when you're sitting down at performance review time or you're making an ask for a promotion, a raise, flexible work arrangement, whatever, you have all this stuff handy, and you're not trying to throw it all together at the last minute. And these are ways that you can you can build your brand, and you can begin to, over time, really, really guide and form what people think of when they when they hear your name, the type of leader you are, the type of contributor and professional that you are.

Adam Larson: 24:34

Yeah. It's a it's a slow burn. It's not instant gratification, but it's something that you have to build over time with when you're building trust, when you're building, yourself up and you're learning about yourself. And that takes time. It's not something that happens overnight.

Adam Larson: 24:45

So I like that that approach that you just mentioned.

Stacey Chazin: 24:48

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Adam Larson: 24:50

So, you know, there's something that we hear a lot now, especially with the way things are changing and how busy organizations are. Organizations are tightening the belt and, you know, reducing staff. You know, burnout is a real thing for introverts and our traverse. Regardless of how you interact with folks, it's a real thing. You know, how can professionals kinda manage their energy, maintain a healthy balance without compromising the growth of their career?

Adam Larson: 25:13

Because, you know, you can't always say, I need a I need a a 2 month break. Just give me time. Like, that's not an option these days.

Stacey Chazin: 25:20

I want that job.

Adam Larson: 25:21

Yeah. I want that job too.

Stacey Chazin: 25:22

Yeah. Burnout is such a real thing. And and I will tell you, I recently launched I'm gonna be, I believe this episode's coming out toward the start of the year. I'm gonna be opening up, for the second time, towards to a course I just created online called the introvert's leadership formula. And one of the modules focuses entirely on burnout prevention for introverts.

Adam Larson: 25:43

Mhmm.

Stacey Chazin: 25:43

And so I teach how do you recognize the signs and symptoms of burnout. And one of the things that I teach, and I'll expand on a little bit here, is how do you say no as an introvert? That's a really hard thing. And the introverts who I my coaching clients, I hear that so often. They don't know how to set boundaries

Announcer: 26:02

and then stick to them.

Adam Larson: 26:03

Yeah.

Stacey Chazin: 26:04

And and that's one of the ways anyone can get burnt out. Right? If you have too much on your plate or people are giving you work that isn't aligned with your skill set or what you're really what's gonna be feasible for you to accomplish, it's a surefire way to burn you out. And that's gonna lead to can lead to physical, emotional, psychological, you know, symptoms that are just not healthy for you. So we have a hard time saying no.

Stacey Chazin: 26:30

Like, we tend to be conflict diverse. We like we we tend to want harmony in the workplace and harmony with others, and we also tend to not wanna disappoint people. So what saying no is, you know, it it's generally gonna disappoint someone, and we like to be seen as someone that others can count on.

Adam Larson: 26:47

Yeah.

Stacey Chazin: 26:49

So the first thing I would say is if if someone puts you on the spot with an ask that's not aligned with your availability, your bandwidth, or your skill set, buy yourself some time. You know, say, you know, let me check with what what else I have going on, and let me get back to you. Or I need to review my current commitments. And then so I wanna make sure if I'm saying yes to you, that I can do the job the way you need it to get done, you know, with this with the degree of excellence that I know that you and I would both expect from it. Once you do that, if you can do that, there's a technique called, you know, using the yes and technique.

Stacey Chazin: 27:22

So, yes, I'm happy to take it on, and I would need to start it next month. Or and I would need to have support from some other staffers to be able to do this in a way that's gonna meet the expectations and to do it well. And then the 3rd way to do it is to offer alternatives. So I'm I'm not able to do it right now, but I believe that Sarah's available, and she actually has a lot of experience in this space. Again, a caveat, you won't always be able to say these things depending on the power dynamic.

Stacey Chazin: 27:51

You the flexibility you're gonna have to say no could it it could not be there at times. But these are things you should aspire to and communicate with the other person that if you were to say yes to this, this would be the impact. Right? That you might not be able to do it to meet the the standards of excellence. Your other work might suffer, and and your I I would absolutely encourage saying that that your well-being in the workplace is that might suffer because you're gonna have too much on your plate.

Stacey Chazin: 28:20

So set the boundaries and do your best to stick to them.

Adam Larson: 28:25

Yeah. That's a that's a tough one. But I I like that approach that, you know, that, that approach that's famous in improv. Yes. And but I I like that approach for saying, yes.

Adam Larson: 28:34

I can do it. But or, yes. I can do it, and I can start at this time. But it it's I it's it's more than just saying no and just leaving it at that. I think it you have to have that good communication, that open communication to be open and saying, hey.

Adam Larson: 28:48

This is where I'm at as opposed to just flat out saying no or flat out saying yes and not taking into consideration any aspects of it.

Stacey Chazin: 28:55

Yeah. And and this really just connects to how crucial it is to communicate with your manager

Adam Larson: 29:00

and

Stacey Chazin: 29:01

your colleagues about your bandwidth, about your abilities, and even the fact that you're introverted. You might not wanna use that word. You you know, that's up to you. But it's so important to let your your manager and your coworkers know how how you can do your best work, what it is that you need to be successful. And one of the things I suggest when when a team comes together for the first time, whether it's an ad hoc project team or a a newly forming team that's gonna stick around for a long time is, at your first meeting, to go around the table and have everyone share one thing with the group.

Stacey Chazin: 29:34

What do you want the rest of the group to know about what you need to be successful on this team? Right? And for an introvert, that could be, I need a mix, a balance of group and individual work time so that I'll be able to do my best. Or, you know, and or I need opportunities to contribute my ideas in writing because that's when you're gonna get the the most thoughtful, database, innovative ideas from me rather than on the spot. And everyone will go around the table.

Stacey Chazin: 30:02

You'll learn a lot of things about each other. It probably won't be all introverts. I hope it wouldn't be all introverts. It gives you an opportunity to it gives you an opportunity to share with with your team members, what what you need to be at your best. And when they hear that from you, there's a much greater likelihood they're gonna they're gonna give that to you.

Stacey Chazin: 30:22

If they don't know, they can't do it.

Adam Larson: 30:25

Yeah. Well, and it's also a call to all leaders out there who are listening to this to saying, hey, be mindful of your teams and give that open space so that people can share, hey, this doesn't work best for me. Can we try this? And and working with each other as opposed to just saying everybody has to do it one way.

Stacey Chazin: 30:42

That's exactly right. Because this conversation is more than just about what can you do as an introvert to thrive, but how can managers get the most out of their introverted employees and make sure that not just what can they get out of them, but how can they make sure they're the happiest and they're fulfilled and they're doing their best work? And so, you know, get giving your employees, your team members opportunities to contribute in different ways, to work in different ways that reflect their strengths. Super important.

Adam Larson: 31:09

Well, Stacy, I hope our listeners have enjoyed this conversation as much as I have. I've learned a lot, and I really appreciate you sharing and coming on and, sharing everything with our audience today.

Stacey Chazin: 31:18

Thank you. Thank you. It was my pleasure.

Announcer: 31:22

This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast providing you with the latest perspectives of thought leaders from the accounting and finance profession. If you like what you heard and you'd like to be counted in for more relevant accounting and finance education, visit IMA's website at www.ima net.org.