Adam Larson: 00:20

Welcome back to Count Me In. On today's episode, we sit down with Renata Serban, founder of Highly Elevated CPA. We'll delve into key issues like the bipartisan push for cannabis rescheduling in the US and the critical role of accountants in navigating the complex regulations. Renata shares her insights on the medical benefits of cannabis, especially for cancer patients, and the ongoing battle against outdated stereotypes. Plus, we'll discuss the potential future changes in banking and legislation based on the US elections.

Adam Larson: 00:49

Join us for an enlightening conversation on the evolving world of cannabis. And, I'm just so excited to have you

Adam Larson: 00:59

on the Count Me In podcast. And today, we're gonna

Adam Larson: 01:01

be talking about accounting in highly regulated industries, specifically today, the cannabis industry. And I figured before we get started in that, I was thought you could share a little bit about your journey to how you got to this point so far.

Renata Serban: 01:14

Well, Adam, well, first of all, thank you so much for inviting me for for this podcast. It's an honor to be here. Never miss an opportunity, you know, for any podcast to kind of voice my opinion, and, I think it's a great initiative. I really appreciate that. So my background in my career journey is very unorthodox.

Renata Serban: 01:31

Right? I wasn't born here. I came here 2007. I'm originally from Kazakhstan, which is a country in Central Asia. And my family is also very diverse background.

Renata Serban: 01:44

Right? My dad was always into sports, and my mom, she works for the city agency. So my dad was always pushing me into sports and be best at sports, and my mom was always pushing me, you know, to be best at school. That's why I have a brown belt in judo and summa cum laude in in all my education. And back home, I got a degree in chemical engineering simply because the academy of my home country is heavily based also on oil and gas, so chemical engineering was very, you know, an intuitive choice.

Renata Serban: 02:16

When I come here to the US in 2007 to really kinda learn English and and get some education, because American education when especially when it comes to business is top of the line, I chose the career of, you know, the career of accountant because I just knew that in order to continue in chemical engineering, it would be it would be just so much harder for me that there was a language barrier, and most of the good schools really in in chemical engineering are somewhere in Texas. So being in New York, the logical choice was really to choose career in accounting. It was also very, you know, practical profession. I knew I could always find a job, and it was just, like, so easy for me. You know?

Renata Serban: 02:57

Like, math, debits, and credits, it was just so easy for me to understand. But, you know, once you start really pursuing the career, when you are an immigrant, right, it's a little bit different battle you have to face. Right? You you really have to be, like, 2 steps ahead of everybody else. I knew I need to get all the way in my education.

Renata Serban: 03:17

I knew I need to get certified management accountant, certified public accountant, master's degree in accounting, get a combination of private and public accounting experience, you know, to kinda set myself apart. That was that was always my goal. And it looks like so far, you know, I'm I'm the founder of my own practice, highly elevated CPA, providing accounting and consulting services to cannabis operators in New York and New Jersey. And that's really was my path coming all the way to to this point. Like, very long journey, very, like, you know, hard.

Adam Larson: 03:54

Oh, yeah. I'm sure that there is a lot of ups and downs through that whole journey, but it's it's great to hear how you got to where you were in running a successful business right now is a really awesome thing in an industry that is kind of just burgeoning in the US because, you know, it was it's obviously if anybody follows the headlines in the US, it's it's it's still illegal federally, but at a state level, state by state, they're kind of they're legalizing it. So there's a lot of room for gray areas. So, you know, what what drew you to the cannabis industry, and and what about it keeps you going in it? Because it it sounds like it's a fascinating, thing to get started in.

Renata Serban: 04:30

It is. And a lot of people really don't know that, you know, before the, you know, the prohibition back in the thirties, cannabis was totally legal. And it's really and then it was kinda like a reversal where, you know, prohibition was over, and then cannabis all of a sudden, you know, got criminalized, and that's how we get there. Like, I think it was a really big mistake. I think there was a lot of politics involved at that time.

Renata Serban: 04:56

How I got involved into that very easy. Cannabis for me is the medication. It's a medication that, sort of there's no side effects. It really helps me with my insomnia. It really helps me with with my migraine.

Renata Serban: 05:12

It really helps me with pain management. You know, as you get older, like, it hurts everywhere. And so that's on a personal basis. And then it happened that, when I was part of the Sachin Cooperman team, I was originally recruited into their business advisory services again because of my diverse experience and combination of private and public knowledge, of course, accounting. Thank thank thank you to certified management accounting certification.

Renata Serban: 05:41

I immediately got pulled into cannabis advisory services group. And you know how it goes in the cannabis space, like, 1 year goes for 7. So, like, if you work in this industry for a year, like, you're already considered a veteran because it's just such a fast paced environment, such a fast paced industry, and especially what I love about this industry, the the diverse background of people that are involved. I work a lot with with doctors. I work a lot with cancer patients, you know, survivors.

Renata Serban: 06:11

You know, cannabis helped them a lot going through chemo. A lot of my clients also disabled veterans. Cannabis also helped them, go through through their pain and disability. And it's really I think that there's just, like, so many stereotypes in this industry, and just due to lack of knowledge what exactly this plant is and how it affects our body and, you know, that common perception about the stoners and stuff. But if you think about it, you know, if you're drinking and if you're, like, overusing it, like, nobody talks about that, but for some reason so I think it's it's also a lot about stereotypes, and working in a highly regulated industry presents a lot of challenges, of course, but that's what makes it a very specialized niche.

Renata Serban: 06:58

Mhmm. You really have to know the regulations of the states where you're operating. We all know at the federal level is illegal, but it's really heavily driven by states and the regulations of the states is and as an accountant as a very qualified accountant, you really have to know the regulations in order to properly advise your clients. You know, ever since, I started to be involved in this industry since 2021, like, ever since, like, as I said, 3 years, like, times 7. I'm gonna celebrate 25 year anniversary next year.

Adam Larson: 07:31

Well, it sounds like you have to there's a lot you have to wade through as an accountant. So when when you're in this type of industry and there's not a lot of guidance, like federal guidance, there's not a lot of state guidance, there's maybe there might be a little bit at the state level, but there's not a lot of guidance. What skills and framework should accounting and like, accounting teams kind of rely on to to make sure that you're doing things properly? Because in a lot of places, it's cash only, and it's not like all these great new newfangled, systems can't count cash for you.

Renata Serban: 07:59

Yes. So that is true. There's really, like, really not that much guidance. I mean, the entire tax framework for the tax preparation of the cannabis operators is really 77 words of the 2 a d section of IRS code and the key tax court cases. And that's pretty much it.

Renata Serban: 08:18

So what skills you need is really, like, research the research. You have to you have to know all those key court tax cases and to sign a kind of making a conclusion based on the, you know, judge and judge's ruling. You have to do the research and kinda take very conservative position to make sure that the client is protected. And the cash, yes, it's a very cash intensive industry and, you know, like, because it's federal illegal, there are not many banks that are willing to serve cannabis operators. But there are still some solutions.

Renata Serban: 08:52

You know? Cannabis operators, you know, they they always finding a way. They're very adaptive. But there are some banks that still bank little by little, there's more banks that are coming on board, and I think also especially in light of current talks of rescheduling. Mhmm.

Renata Serban: 09:10

I think, you know, people are talking more about more about it than, you know, what both of the presidential candidates sort of seem to be in support of the cannabis rescheduling, so to say. Yeah. It's it's it's really a lot of research, a lot of reading. We also, as a chair of the cannabis committee of the New York State Society of CPAs, it's like it's a lot of also sharing of experience. Right?

Renata Serban: 09:37

It's it's like, how do you handle this? Like, how do you approach? Why why do you approach it this way? Just like really speaking with other practitioners specializing in this as well. That pretty much it.

Renata Serban: 09:47

The it's not like there is one book you can read and know how to do it. No. It's not.

Adam Larson: 09:53

Yeah. It sounds like networking with other people who are in the industry is a great way to learn. Are Yeah. Yeah. Are you find that the within this industry, that there will or do you think that within this industry that there will be times where you guys will find better ways to do things?

Adam Larson: 10:09

And, eventually, when the rest of the world catches up, you'll be like, hey, guys. We've been doing it this better way for so long, and you might you might be able to improve upon processes at a larger level because you guys are having to be get so creative because there is no guidance.

Renata Serban: 10:23

Well, I think once it's, once it's rescheduled or descheduled and let me clarify that. So currently, cannabis is on schedule 1 of Control Substances Act. Right? Control substance schedule 1 means that cannabis is on that schedule, heroin and cocaine. And, like, those are substances that have no medical kind of intent, which we all know is incorrect.

Renata Serban: 10:50

Cannabis extensively use as medication. When it will be rescheduled to schedule 3, which there are also a lot of medications that it would require medical prescription 280 wouldn't apply. So that's why when we talk about rescheduling, it's literally moving, reclassifying cannabis from schedule 1 and moving it to schedule 3. Desccheduling, on other hand, means that cannabis will be completely decre decriminalized. It's not gonna be on any of the schedules, and, you know, it will be treated as similar to tobacco and alcohol industry.

Renata Serban: 11:31

The interstate commerce will be allowed. There might be some excise taxes on cannabis products sold, but it will be completely different environment. And I think there will be a lot of opportunities.

Adam Larson: 11:41

Yeah. It sounds like there would be a lot of opportunities. And, plus, if you deschedule it, you would allow for a lot more tax revenue and revenue for the for the country and for the states. Right? So it would seem to make sense in some ways, maybe.

Renata Serban: 11:56

In either way, where either it's reschedule or descheduled, I think there is a lot of, thought. Mhmm. There's not enough research done about cannabis because cannabis plant has a lot of potential, and a lot of people just they just don't know about it. There's a lot of really, like, medical potential that a a lot of people, they they just don't know about it. So I'm thinking once once it's rescheduled, really, the accounting bodies will will come together and kinda maybe provide some kind of a guidance, or maybe will be just treated like, you know, cultivation, for example.

Renata Serban: 12:30

Right? Who anybody who's growing probably will be approaching in a similar way as any agriculture. Mhmm. The same in the manufacturing. And anybody who's manufacturing, you know, cannabis products probably will be also similar to accounting for manufacturers.

Renata Serban: 12:45

And the same for the retailers, it's gonna be similar to the ecommerce. And, Canada is right there around the corner. I'm pretty sure that some of the some of the best practices will be also adapted. Cannabis is legalized in a lot of European countries as well. Germany is one of them.

Renata Serban: 13:04

And, actually, I wish I I I knew German because there are actually some books to cannabis accounting and related to cannabis that are in German. And I'm like, oof, I I wish I knew how to speak that language so I could read more on the

Adam Larson: 13:20

Yeah. Maybe maybe we can, get a group effort and try to get it translated so that, you know, the cannabis folks in the US can kinda learn from the

Renata Serban: 13:28

That's a great idea, actually. I haven't thought about it.

Adam Larson: 13:31

Yeah. So when you're an accountant within this realm, you know, so you were just talking about how, like, when it when they finally make decision to deregulate or schedule it differently, it'll probably just fall into the same accounting practices within those industries. But it sounds like you as an accountant, you kinda have to be that consultant, that business partner with the organization because, you know, people are starting new businesses just like any other business. You need to have somebody who has sound financial sense to kinda help guide the organization.

Renata Serban: 14:01

That is true. And not only sound financial sense, but as I mentioned, cannabis industry is heavily driven by state regulations. Right? In order to properly advise, you really have to know the racks because there is a lot of limitation what cannabis operate operator cannot and cannot do. Like, for example, when somebody, like, in New Jersey, right, like, when somebody is applying for microbusiness license, you can only hire 10 people.

Renata Serban: 14:26

So, immediately, you know, the limitation on how many people you can hire or have on the payroll, limitation on how how much product you can produce or how much product you can purchase, limitation on the size of the store that you can have. There are a lot of limitations related to advertising. That that that's why networking events are so popular among cannabis industry because that's really when you where you get to know people, where a lot of companies get to showcase their product. And when accountant really knows the regulations, that's when the value of the strategic adviser and the management accountant really comes in. You have to know the regs of that particular state.

Renata Serban: 15:11

Because when you know the regs, when you're looking at the numbers, then you can immediately say, like, you're doing something wrong. You're doing something outside of the regulations. There are constant reports that both states and some of these municipalities of some of the states, for example, in New Jersey, they're requiring financial reports. They're requiring, I mean, you know, all the records to make sure that they are getting their tax revenue because, you know, it's all about taxes. You know, like, the the states are really getting a very good share of taxes, and there's a lot of of that money going into rebuilding the communities.

Renata Serban: 15:47

But, yes, cannabis accountant is truly is a strategic adviser and consultant.

Adam Larson: 15:54

Mhmm. There are some ways that you've been able to kind of help organizations when they're getting started getting into the industry because you've told you've told me that there's a lot of like, there's this this industry has an amazing with their compliance. Like, everything's tracked and regulated to a t, especially in, you know, obviously, in this area, the one you're familiar with, but you know that the rest of the industry is is very much similar to that. Can we talk a little bit about the that compliance and how important that is?

Renata Serban: 16:18

Yeah. Interestingly enough, like, a lot of people, like, they don't even realize how much compliance is involved in the cannabis space and many cannabis operators, because there's so much compliance involved, they they are very much on top of their records. They're very much on top of, you know, all the operations because they are obligated by by law to to follow that. Like, for example, every cannabis operator, like, from from seed to cell and and that term, what it means is that starting from the cultivation activity, when you just plant the cannabis, you know, in into the ground, you're actually assigning an ID to that plant. And that plant has attack.

Renata Serban: 17:00

It it's sort of like a passport. Right? And every time when when, you know, when you're moving that plant from the, you know, veg veg stage to harvest and to trimming and then into production, You have to tag it and tag it and tag it. So anybody who comes, they can actually trace literally from seed to the final cell. And I don't believe any other industry have that compliance.

Renata Serban: 17:25

It's it's a tremendous system that a lot of states are using. They call it track and trace. So every time when the operator, you know, have a license and whether it's cultivator, manufacturer, or retailer, they have to have all their products tagged. Like, for example, most of the states using metric system. New Jersey uses metric.

Renata Serban: 17:48

New York, for example, using BIOTRA. California is using metric. Pennsylvania, I believe, using MJ Freeway. These are all computerized platforms that essentially track the movement of cannabis products within the space. Yeah.

Renata Serban: 18:04

And a lot of people really don't know about that. And the same when it comes to the banking. Right? A lot of banks that serve cannabis operators, they also require additional reports. Right?

Renata Serban: 18:15

You have to you have to show them how much sales you made, what exactly you sold and to whom, and to really just to make sure that there is no product going outside of the legal operations. And it's a lot of compliance. That's why we, as accountants and also a lot of attorneys, we just it's it's it's a really good niche for us to advise them to help them. Because, again, like, the risk of audit like, there there is a saying in this industry. Like, it's not the matter of if.

Renata Serban: 18:48

It's the matter of when. You will be audited. At some point, you will be audited either by federal government, by state, or local. So that's why we always have to be audit ready. It's just like over of overall state of mind that a lot of accountants have when they're operating with cannabis operators.

Renata Serban: 19:06

Of course, there's also another issue that, you know, you know, prevails. There's a lot of small business owners that kind of just they're trying to get on track with, you know, selling cannabis products legally. Obviously, there is, you know, still black a lot of black market involved.

Announcer: 19:26

And,

Renata Serban: 19:26

you know, a lot of people are like, okay. We gotta make it right. Right? And, especially, you know, what's the difference between cannabis that that is sold on the black market versus what is sold in in legalized, you know, licensed store? Is the quality.

Renata Serban: 19:41

Because every every product that is being sold in the cannabis store is is being tested for all the chemicals, for the concentration of the THC, and you know that when you're buying a product from the licensed dispensary, it's a clean product. It's like, you know, any other chemicals, it's a clean product. And when you're buying something, you know, on the street, you really don't know what you're buying even though it's cheaper, but it's also much more dangerous. And that's really, like, you know, like, it's you really have to teach a lot of start you know, start ups how to run a business. They know how to grow.

Renata Serban: 20:18

They know how to sell. But you really have to explain to them. You have to have people on payroll. You have to pay payroll taxes. You have to have this insurance.

Renata Serban: 20:27

You have to do this. You have to do that. It's really teach them how to run a business. I found myself a lot in this situation. But Yeah.

Adam Larson: 20:35

It's like you're no longer the, the the you're no longer the the accountant. You're so somebody coming like the operating officer or, like, the chief consultant where you're kinda showing them the ropes of things.

Renata Serban: 20:46

Yes. And and and, like, I guess we have to come up with some kind of a term that is appropriate. I don't know. Accounting strategic officer or something like that. Because, again, it's not just about the compliance and, you know, there's this common perception about, you know, that we account as a just commodity.

Renata Serban: 21:03

And it always always bothers me. Like, we're not a commodity. We're people who save you, who who keeps you, you know, out of jail for nonpayment of taxes. You know? We keep you safe.

Renata Serban: 21:14

We know the regulations. We know how to do tax work. We know how to do a test work. And because we know that, we can that's when the value comes in. That's when we can actually advise you how to do better within the limits of the law.

Renata Serban: 21:28

And a lot of people, they just don't know what they don't know. And my role is always, like, I I have to explain and, you know, educate people on that.

Adam Larson: 21:37

In such a fast growing industry, there's, you know, there's a lot of especially in places that are recreational is becoming available, like, places like New Jersey, New York, though they recently happened. And, you know, all these places are popping up, and then, you know, the next day you see articles in New York City. The mayor was burning tons and tons of illegal, cannabis. You know, how do you navigate those waters if somebody's, like, interested? Like, hey.

Adam Larson: 22:00

I wanna get in this entry. I wanna get connected. How can somebody get connected and figure out? Because it seems like it's it's a constant up and down, like, kind of like a start ups where, like, tons of start ups happen, like, in technology, but then a bunch of them failed. Do you think that's gonna happen in the cannabis industry as well?

Renata Serban: 22:16

Well, there, of course, you know, back in the day when it was that golden rush. Right? Like, peep people were trying to mine, you know, gold. You know, people were looking for the opportunities. Right?

Renata Serban: 22:27

So in this industry, we call it a green rush. You know, people hear cannabis. They think it's a lot of money. It is it is, profitable industry, but there's much more to it, like, in order to be profitable, really. There's a lot of people entering this industry just for the sake of the opportunity.

Renata Serban: 22:45

Most of my clients, they have a personal story. They have a relationship with the plan where it helped them in any way. But there are also a lot of, you know, people that just they see opportunity. You know? Why not?

Renata Serban: 22:58

The main problem really when it comes to operating a cannabis business is particularly New York and New Jersey is really the location because it's it's very limited where you can operate. Right? In New Jersey, for example, only 30% of municipalities opted in, meaning only 30% of municipalities allow cannabis operators within their jurisdictions, and 70% opted out. They can still opted in at some point, but, you know, the the state sort of gave them, you know, the option. In New York, the the the same, you know, a little bit different than New Jersey, but but but similar.

Renata Serban: 23:38

Some of the municipality, they had, option to up the in or out of the retail dispensaries, but the the majority of them kinda allow in the, you know, the cultivation and the manufacturing. And in New York in particular, right, when the when the marijuana taxation, and regulation act was passed in March of 2021, there's a lot of illegal cannabis stores started to pop up. Right? And they totally were taking advantage of the fact that people didn't know that there is a licensing process. They kinda saw in the news that they got legalized in New York, and all of a sudden, there's all the stores popped up, and they were totally operating without license.

Adam Larson: 24:20

Mhmm.

Renata Serban: 24:20

And for some time, there was a lot of issues with that because sort of state allowed, New York City in particular allowed that. And, you know, they had to come up with additional regulations to sort of give, you know, power to the enforcement agency to lock down those stores really, like, starting this year after governor Katie Hogle kinda, like, put it within the budget. Mhmm. You know, there's a lot of stores started to be locked down, like, literally, and, like, within couple of months, I think, since June, there's so many stores got closed. So the the state revenue, the tax revenue went tremendously after all the stores were closed.

Renata Serban: 25:00

But, yes, there is obviously, you know, always that competition, legal market versus black market. It's always there. But as more people know and kinda being aware that product in a licensed cannabis dispenser is much better quality, they kinda try, you know, to stay away from the black market. And, of course, there's a lot of challenges if anybody decides to enter into this industry. You like, I'll always recommend, you have to do your own homework.

Renata Serban: 25:29

Yes. You can hire consultants. Yes. You can hire attorney, but you have to do your own homework because this is unlike anything else. You have to apply for the license.

Renata Serban: 25:39

There's a lot of time, you know, hurry up and wait, we call it. Like, you you have to, like, really, like, write an application, and then you just wait. So it's just like that specific. You have to be ready for that, and that only counts when you do your own research, you know, specific of particular states, what needs to be, you know, when you apply for the license. So there's a lot of nuances involved.

Renata Serban: 25:58

And, again, it's niche. It's very specialized niche for anybody who's in this industry.

Adam Larson: 26:04

Yeah. It's it is very specialized. I I appreciate I appreciate your explanation because that really that really, makes it very clear. So, you know, when we're looking to the future, potential seems endless with this industry. What do you think is is next?

Adam Larson: 26:17

Like, obviously, congress in the US takes forever to make decisions, but maybe there can be other some other things that happen in the industry except for waiting for the scheduling and descheduling and what what to make a decision.

Renata Serban: 26:28

Well, I think, you know, if I remember correctly, I literally today, I saw that the hearing is scheduled for December 2nd between the DEA and, you know, the the related agencies to kinda hear about, you know, arguments from both sides about rescheduling. Obviously, you know, the presidential elections are coming up. I think, you know, it's we'll see how that goes. Each each candidate have different plan when even when it comes to taxation. I know I know Kamala Harris.

Renata Serban: 27:01

She's she's coauthor of the MORE Act. MORE Act is marijuana opportunity, rejuvenation and expungement act, I think, something like that. So that act, would essentially completely decriminalize cannabis. Mhmm. And it would impose excise tax on cannabis products, would allow interstate commerce.

Renata Serban: 27:24

And, also, big piece of that legislation is the criminal justice reform. Right? So people who got arrested for the cannabis, you know, all the conventions convictions will be expunged. So Kamala Harris, given her background as a former prosecutor, like, you know, that's her goal. Donald Trump, on the other side, you know, hinted his support also on rescheduling.

Renata Serban: 27:47

And, again, like, as I mentioned before, from schedule 1 to schedule 3, which, it it just will be less federal oversight, but there still will be federal government will be controlling since it's gonna be on on schedule 3. But, nevertheless, you know, when politics are involved, of course, they're gonna meet somewhere in the middle. I think, like, something's gonna happen no matter which presidential candidate will be the next term. I think there will be more movement towards positive towards, you know, maybe maybe something related to banking because, again, it's a big issue within the cannabis space. Maybe some additional regulations, you know, loosen up for the you know, and allow, you know, better access to banking.

Renata Serban: 28:30

But we all wait for the at least rescheduling because that way, the 2 80 will go away.

Adam Larson: 28:36

Mhmm.

Renata Serban: 28:36

Because 280 only applies to schedule 12 substances, and schedule 3, obviously, doesn't apply. So I'm very excited for for the upcoming, you know, elections. I actually registered to vote. Wasn't really wasn't really much into it, but I think now it's time. So I'll recommend that anybody else also to kinda, like, you know, contribute their vote.

Renata Serban: 29:00

Some people might think, you know, my vote won't make a difference, but then, like, you know, like, add 5,000,000 who think like that. And then if, you know, you can change their mind, like, no. Your your vote is matter. I think that's important as well. But regardless, I think the positive change change is coming no matter who the president will be.

Adam Larson: 29:20

That's good. It's encouraging to hear, you know, especially since if you look at research that was done outside of the United States, there's been so many benefits that have been outlined, especially medical research and stuff like that. And because it's been on a schedule 1 for so long, people haven't been able to participate or do extensive studies. And so, hopefully, the deregulation helps and people can actually see the medical benefits for this for that plant for this beautiful plant that grows in the ground because I think we're we're robbing people for not being not allowing them to have access to it to something so that's been so helpful to so many.

Renata Serban: 29:53

I agree. And, again, like, cannabis is a very, you know, very common among cancer patients, especially, you know, especially for kids that are undergoing chemo because all the, you know, painkillers that would help you kind of, you know, mitigate the pain from chemo, they they all have terrible side effects. And a lot of parents who unfortunately have sick kids, they're going through leukemia or through some other, you know, pain. Like, they they heavily using cannabis for as alternative medicine for them because that's the only one that really helps them calm with the pain and with the sleep. And I I I truly hope that little by little, the stereotypes will

Adam Larson: 30:38

Mhmm.

Renata Serban: 30:39

Change and, you know, the federal reform, hopefully, will will assist in that.

Adam Larson: 30:46

Yeah. And if you look at the propaganda from the thirties, I think a lot of our stereotypes still stem from that propaganda, which is which is terrible, and it's very much something that happens in the US way too often that propaganda from years years ago still affects people's mindsets today. So, hopefully, we as people can evolve and grow beyond propaganda that doesn't say anything true.

Renata Serban: 31:10

Yeah. And interestingly enough, I I read the history of that. As I said, before, you know, AlcoGol was completely, you know, banned. Cannabis was was, you know, available, and then they kinda, you know, sort of find an alternative evil. Okay.

Renata Serban: 31:24

Let's make cannabis now, you know, prohibited. Mhmm. And ever since, you know, it was it was totally utilized in the wrong direction. It was like a political tool. And it will take some time, obviously, to break those stereotypes, but, you know, the positive change is coming for sure.

Adam Larson: 31:39

Definitely. Well, Renata, thank you so much

Adam Larson: 31:41

for coming on the podcast. This has been a great conversation. Hope you guys check out what Renata's doing. Follow her on LinkedIn and connect with her, And, we hope

Adam Larson: 31:48

to have you back to talk about this topic again as the industry constantly changes. So thanks again for coming.

Renata Serban: 31:54

Thank you for having me.

Announcer: 31:57

This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast providing you with the latest perspectives of thought leaders from the accounting and finance profession. If you like what you heard and you'd like to be counted in for more relevant accounting and finance education, visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.