Adam Larson: 00:20

Welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today, I had the pleasure of speaking with Sheila Rondeau, CEO of MOG XP and an expert in the art of networking. Despite her introverted nature, Sheila has developed unique strategies for building meaningful connections and emphasizes the importance of personal branding and authenticity. In this episode, Sheila will share her insights on effective follow ups, evaluating networking groups, and maintaining a balanced social media presence. Whether you're an introvert or an extrovert, Sheila's valuable tips can help you enhance your networking efforts and personal brand.

Adam Larson: 00:54

Let's dive in. Sheila, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I'm really excited to chat with you about having your own brand and building your own personal brand. And when you and I are first chatting, you kind of mentioned that business professionals need to have their own brand. And I figured, let's let's let's dig it.

Adam Larson: 01:16

Let's start by digging into that a little bit.

Sheila Rondeau: 01:18

Okay. Well, first of all, Adam, thanks for having me. And as far as having your own brand as a business professional, whether you are a small business owner, if you are an executive, you still have to own your own brand. It's how you put yourself out there wherever you are, whatever you do. It it impacts your personal life and your business life.

Sheila Rondeau: 01:42

If you are, you know, middle management at a at a corporation and you wanna get promoted, it you manage your brand. It is about making sure that you are authentic to who you are, that you position yourself as a thought leader, and that you are true to to what you are, who you are, what you do, and that you communicate it well. So my my thoughts on that is think about all the things that happen with Bud Light, and there was a lack of authenticity there. And so you you can think about it as as a big brand like that, but also for individuals. And then you think about how a company like Ben and Jerry's goes to market.

Sheila Rondeau: 02:34

Mhmm. And Ben and Jerry's are unapologetically who they are. You know who they are, what they stand for any minute of any day, and you know where they're gonna be all the time. Where what side of the the aisle are they gonna be on? What side of an issue, and what voice are they going to speak in?

Sheila Rondeau: 02:54

And that's what you have to do as an individual. So you don't always have to flat you know, wave the flag and say, okay. These are my personal beliefs and so on because there are a lot of times that that's just inappropriate.

Adam Larson: 03:06

Mhmm.

Sheila Rondeau: 03:06

But you have to be authentic. You have to speak in a voice of reason, and you have to have a clear, concise message.

Adam Larson: 03:13

Alright. So you said a lot there, and there's definitely a lot we can unpack. But to start off, like, it sounds like taking care of your personal brand, because a lot of times people are like, well, I'm not a marketer. How can I take care of my personal brand? We can we can get to that.

Adam Larson: 03:31

But it sounds like your brand is really what we used to call your reputation. Right? It's really your reputation that you're trying to support and put out there. Why the change from the word reputation to brand? Is that the same, or are there differences there?

Sheila Rondeau: 03:45

Because I think reputation is at a at a smaller scale. And your reputation is is everything, but it is the first of the building blocks. But then you look at if you are a thought leader, if you are a risk taker, are you a leader? All those things. And if you're owning your own brand, you have to look at how you ladder into those things.

Sheila Rondeau: 04:12

So if you are a thought leader, then you want to be published. You wanna make sure that you're creating content and that you're sharing things. But when you're sharing things, you're sharing value, not just sharing content to hear yourself speak. And when you share value, you enhance other people's lives. So you make them think, you give them ideas that they didn't have, you give them different perspective, or you teach them.

Adam Larson: 04:41

So what's the difference then between somebody who is sharing for value and somebody who is sharing just to hear their own hear their own voice. Like, if we if we, as consumers, are looking out there to see who is actually actually expert, can we tell just by listening to them talk? Or what are what are some points they should people should look for?

Sheila Rondeau: 05:01

So I look for those who are selling all the time.

Adam Larson: 05:04

Okay.

Sheila Rondeau: 05:05

The folks who sound like they are always doing a sales pitch.

Adam Larson: 05:09

Yeah.

Sheila Rondeau: 05:10

And it comes off like that. It's like, look at me, look at me, look at me. And when you are thought a thought leader and you are giving value, you are creating value by encouraging people to do things, inspiring them and also giving them tips that they can use to enhance their lives.

Adam Larson: 05:32

So you keep mentioning that term thought leader, and I'm sure everybody's listening to this podcast has heard that terminology. It's probably overused in the business world. But let's talk a little bit more. Like, what is a thought leader and how would somebody start down that road to becoming 1?

Sheila Rondeau: 05:49

So thought leaders are exactly what it says. It is about creating creating thoughts and sharing those thoughts in a in a meaningful way where you can talk about how to enhance people's lives, how to enhance their careers. We have so many coaches and consultants. But do you enhance people's lives? Do you move the needle?

Sheila Rondeau: 06:15

Do you give them actionable items? And that's what a thought leader is. Like, don't give me something that is just you pontificating. Give me something that is actionable that I can do today that makes my business better, that makes me able to do something more for my clients, or that enhances my life, that gives me better balance or makes me a better parent, makes me a better, a better daughter, a better friend, whatever that is.

Adam Larson: 06:49

I love that being what the way you describe it is more than just more than just about raising up your career, making more money. Because a lot of times that's what people are like, hey. What can I do to get noticed, to become noticed as an expert so I can get this x amount of money going to this conference and that conference? It's it's actually bringing value to to the human race in whatever field that you're doing in. And that's that's essentially what we should all be striving to do is to bring value and to help others as opposed to focusing just on us.

Adam Larson: 07:21

Because I think we get lost you can get lost in that, especially if you're trying to raise up. You need to have some sort of ego, but you got to keep you can't you can't always be focused on

Sheila Rondeau: 07:30

that. Right. And what also happens is we have a demographic of folks who don't want to go the corporate route. Mhmm. And at some point, they want to work for themselves.

Sheila Rondeau: 07:39

They want to be entrepreneurs. And we have more more young people who want to be entrepreneurs than ever before. And when you look at that, they either have to do it through education, pedigree. And when I say pedigree, I mean, you know, the logos that they've worked for, or they have to prove themselves as thought leaders. So by giving value and by having insights that that prove themselves as as worthy of doing business for you or consulting.

Sheila Rondeau: 08:10

I mean, I find it laughable that we have so many consultants, especially business consultants that have never run businesses before. It's it's crazy. And why would you hire them? Now you have to get you have to get legs. You have to to get your creds, and you have to do it again through through some of those different scenarios, working for companies, learning through education and through mentorship, and also by putting yourself out there, by thinking, by talking, and by putting yourself out there in a way that also you are having two way communication so that you are learning through what you're

Adam Larson: 08:53

giving. Yeah, I really like that. So do you have any examples of like maybe individuals or companies that you admire that would be a good example for people to say, hey, where can I go to look to see somebody has a good personal brand? Just so maybe that because a lot of times, you can we can talk about the theories and how to do it all we want, but it let's say you see it in action, it's it's sometimes hard to to make that connection.

Sheila Rondeau: 09:15

So I could I could name off a 1,000, and it's so hard to pick one out of out of thin air. But I have a dear friend by the name of Judy Hoberman, and Judy Hoberman's brand is selling in a skirt.

Adam Larson: 09:29

And

Sheila Rondeau: 09:30

what I love about Judy is Judy is so authentic to who she is. I spent New Year's Day with her 1 year after spending New Year's Eve with her and her husband and a group of friends. And the following morning, Judy gets up and makes breakfast, and she is still in a skirt. I'm like, oh my gosh. And it's like, no one is ever gonna see Judy in anything but a skirt.

Sheila Rondeau: 09:57

And it's it's true to her brand. And it's not just in the clothing that she wears. It is how she empowers women, how she looks for men to champion women, how she talks in in the way that women talk and teach men and women how to better communicate to one another. And that is really what her brand stands for. She does podcasts.

Sheila Rondeau: 10:24

She does a a TV show. She does a ton of articles, and she does a ton of coaching. But when you look at the folks who call themselves coaches and you look at somebody like Judy, I'm like, Judy owns it. Judy Judy owns her brand. And then you can look at, you know, across the board, whether you like him or not.

Sheila Rondeau: 10:47

Elon Musk, he owns his brand. You know where he's gonna come. You look at Richard Branson. What where whatever they say never shocks you because it is true to who they are. I think they've gotten to the point where where they don't know how to be anything but authentic because they have no filters.

Sheila Rondeau: 11:11

And good or bad, you know, sometimes it is it is very thought provoking, and sometimes it's it may be something you're really behind or it is totally against who you are. But you never doubt where they're gonna come out on an issue.

Adam Larson: 11:26

That's that's a really good point because, you know, whether you agree with somebody or not, you know, knowing where that person stands is a is sometimes an important thing. And what what would you say to somebody who is, you know, listening to this conversation? And, you know, you mentioned that a few times, being being your authentic self. And they look at the and and after some self reflection, they look at themselves and say, hey. My authentic self doesn't always jive with this setting or that setting.

Adam Larson: 11:53

And or or, like, if I'm in a corporate setting, my what I would call my authentic self doesn't always fit in a profession quote, unquote, professional setting. You know, are we supposed to be adjusting ourselves, you know, to fit in those settings? Or or or is it just saying, well, this is me, and if you take it or leave it, like, what what is the best approach there to something like that? Because lots of people, you know, in certain in certain cultures, it's like they call it code switching because they have to say, oh, I need to I need to look this way in front of these people and look this way for those people. You know, that's more, with some with people of color.

Adam Larson: 12:24

And so it's one of those things where like, what what advice would you give to somebody who's who's struggling with that?

Sheila Rondeau: 12:30

You don't always have to put your politics, your personal beliefs and so on. You don't have to lead with them.

Adam Larson: 12:37

Mhmm.

Sheila Rondeau: 12:37

You don't have to to lay it out there for everyone. What I'm saying is so you don't talk about religion. You don't talk about politics. All those traditional things that that your mother told you weren't. You know, you don't talk about money in in in business settings and in social settings.

Sheila Rondeau: 12:54

At the same time. You can if you are strong and you have are opinionated, you can be respectful in how you voice your opinion. You don't necessarily have to agree with everyone. Sometimes you're just like, you know, I I can accept I can accept your point of view, but I don't necessarily agree with it. But but understand we can agree to disagree.

Adam Larson: 13:26

Yeah.

Sheila Rondeau: 13:27

And there can be happy mediums where you try to find middle ground. And it is more important when you are working with coworkers, whether it be in a corporate setting or in a small business type setting, that you find commonalities with people and you don't necessarily have to always lead with your differences.

Adam Larson: 13:49

Mhmm.

Sheila Rondeau: 13:50

Does that make sense?

Adam Larson: 13:51

That does make sense. And I also I also think too, there's this, because of how corporate cultures were originally created, it's, you know, very staunch, you know, wear your suit and tie, and it's very uncomfortable. And I feel like as culture has has changed, we don't have to be so uptight in those settings. However, you know, it's trying to find that balance because I feel like, you know, you're not able to be emotional inside of an office setting. But yet, all of us have many emotions and you have to, oh, I have to be tempered.

Adam Larson: 14:24

I have to tamper those things down. But if you're passionate about something, it's okay to, like, it's okay to show that emotion, but you said in, like, a respectful way in trying to balance that. And I think that's a a struggle that people have, especially people who might be naturally more loud and just excitable because that's just their nature and who they are. But then they

Sheila Rondeau: 14:40

feel like they can't be that self when in a corporate setting. So somebody gave me a quote not long ago that I really liked. Firm, friendly, and fair. You know, it think about that. Think about whether or not it is kind, what you're saying.

Sheila Rondeau: 15:00

It you can you can give somebody criticism or disagree with them and still be kind. And I'm not saying you have to be warm and fuzzy, but you don't have to be mean, and you don't have to be aggressive. Is it is it true? Is it, kind? Is it is it relevant to the conversation?

Sheila Rondeau: 15:28

And if it's not, then it probably doesn't need to be at work.

Adam Larson: 15:32

I think that's a good measure there. I appreciate your thoughts on that. So, you know, circling back to our personal brand. Mhmm. I think when you think about branding, you think about online Internet because that's how we visually see everything.

Adam Larson: 15:45

Obviously, when we're in stores, we see those things. So when you have a personal brand, obviously, social things like social media have a huge part of that. Can we talk a little about use of social media to, like, kinda effectively show that, you know, you talked about books, you know, you can promote those things. But, obviously, we don't wanna be always selling things. So how do you balance those that?

Sheila Rondeau: 16:03

So I I call it the rule the, the social media rule of 3. And, well, it's 3 things, and it's a third of each. It is 1 third personal, 1 third business, 1 third inspirational, aspirational, or community. Nobody wants to follow somebody who does nothing but post pictures of their grandbabies or their cats. Okay.

Sheila Rondeau: 16:32

We may love cats. We may love their grandbaby, but we don't want to see that and only that. We don't want to see somebody who is doing nothing but promoting their business. And we also don't want to see somebody who is always showing what they're doing in the community, as you know, what all my charity events are to make me put me up on the floor. It's about showing you as a person.

Sheila Rondeau: 17:01

People want to know what's happening in your life. And that's that's my rule is is evenly sharing those three areas. And so you can the business

Adam Larson: 17:12

side of it and the inspirational

Sheila Rondeau: 17:12

and aspirational, when you start looking at what your inspirational and aspirational when you start looking at what you're posting. We talk about, being a thought leader is tips, encouragement. It can be motivational Monday. It can be fun Friday. It can be tips Tuesday, whatever it might be.

Sheila Rondeau: 17:33

Or and it doesn't have to be titled anything, but to do it with a a regularity that you're sharing insights or thoughts or fun things that make people smile or make them think. It can also be a blog that you put on LinkedIn that you create a mini blog for and you post it on your Facebook because it might be a little more appropriate to cut it cut the version down and also to to call out. I think one of the the best ways to do it is to call out other people. It is if you're at a social event, you know, you thank your hosts for putting on a great event and and welcoming you there or thanking the organization that is is creating this wonderful charity that is doing so much. It's about how you do it, and that's how you own your brand.

Sheila Rondeau: 18:27

It is sometimes giving the spotlight to someone else, and that actually makes you look a lot more authentic than you saying, guess where I was yesterday. You know?

Adam Larson: 18:40

Yeah. I like that I like that that approach to kind of help help stimulate either thought or some sort of engagement with people who are viewing it as opposed to just, oh, that's a nice picture of your cat, like you were mentioning, or your grandkids or whatever. And how do you balance, you know, because I I'm sure somebody listening to this who is in an organization that, their team their team doesn't have enough people and they feel overworked. They're like, wait. So now I gotta create, like, a my own personal social media strategy?

Adam Larson: 19:09

You know, how do you balance that? Because things are pretty hard right now. And, like, does somebody like, how do you, like, how do you find like, I obviously, you can make the time to do that. But it it seems overwhelming to have another thing to manage.

Sheila Rondeau: 19:23

So what I look at is, can I schedule a bunch of things out there? Lots of free tools to schedule it. You can literally spend a couple of hours once a quarter to build out the business pieces and some of the other things that that you want to do and then the personal and the inspirational and aspirational. So the quotes and things like that, you can schedule ahead of time. But when it comes to the community events, you want to do that when you're there.

Sheila Rondeau: 19:56

So it's literally you take a moment at an event and you take a picture with a group of people and you tag it in and say, you know, these are the people I got to I got. I was fortunate enough to spend the evening with. Or if you are personally, you know, doing something where you want to share a picture of your child or your family doing something fun, then you do it in the spur of the moment. So also, you know, when you start looking at things like LinkedIn, you have to have some consistency on it to actually work. And what I suggest to people is to spend if you want to build your LinkedIn, spend 5 minutes in the morning and 5 in in at night before you go to bed.

Sheila Rondeau: 20:38

First thing in the morning, I look at my social media to see what's happened in the world. I wanna check the news real quick. I wanna see what's in my feed, what people are talking about, and, you know, wish people happy birthday, congratulations, whatever those things are. And I spend a couple of minutes, but I switch over to LinkedIn and then I look at somebody who pops up in my feed that I know and I look at who some of their connections are and I look for the people who I have the most mutual connections with and I reach out to them. And when I do that, if I do a message at all, you know, when you have 34 100 mutual connections, I'm like, okay.

Sheila Rondeau: 21:17

Do I really need to write a note? And and some people won't accept an invitation without a note. And I'm like, you know, okay. And and it's a numbers game at that point. You wanna meet people.

Sheila Rondeau: 21:28

You wanna have people in your your network that are interesting. They don't necessarily have to be a client. You want you want a good mix of people. And when you're doing that, for me, I find somebody in my feed who's interesting. I look at who their connections are, and I look for people who I have a lot of mutual connections with, and I invite them to connect.

Sheila Rondeau: 21:48

A lot of times I don't do a message. If I do do a message, it is very short. If it is more than 3 lines, you are spamming them and stop when you are sending out messages to to connect with them or to even engage with them. If you are sending more than 3 lines like I'm I'm disconnecting with you, I am I'm done with you because you can use LinkedIn and any social media for raising your brand. But social media is meant to be social, which means it is not me getting 20 messages from you before I ever get one back from you.

Sheila Rondeau: 22:26

Like, if I have something where I am trying to reach out to a particular demographic on social media, I might go days days between and sometimes weeks and even months in between reaching out to people who I'd like to have a conversation with. But what I find is I'd rather find out who's in my network, have an authentic 15 minute conversation to learn about them. And I find that I get a lot more out of the conversation. And then I learn who's in my network, not just target somebody because I want to do business with someone. Yeah.

Sheila Rondeau: 22:59

Does that make sense?

Adam Larson: 23:00

It really does. I feel like there's always a delicate balance between business and just getting to know somebody. You know, and if you if you if you post a lot or if you do things on LinkedIn, if you get a lot of messages from people saying, oh, I just wanted to connect with you. And then, like, a day later, you get this whole, sales pretty much sales email to your LinkedIn. And I I don't know if that's the best approach, but it it doesn't seem based on what you're saying, it seems like you want to build authentic connections and through that you can possibly do work together.

Sheila Rondeau: 23:31

Right. And and for me, a lot of the people I connect with aren't people I could ever do business with.

Adam Larson: 23:37

Yeah.

Sheila Rondeau: 23:37

But having a great network also means that I can offer my network to help someone else, someone who's looking for a job, someone who is looking for a connection that can help them. And so I offer to make introductions for people, and that is my gift. Who can I introduce you to? At the same time, I'm not gonna introduce you to someone if you're gonna spend the next 3 months sending them a message every day trying to get a meeting with them or spamming them.

Adam Larson: 24:06

Yeah.

Sheila Rondeau: 24:07

It is about being able to reach out and having ongoing dialogue. So, yeah, you might send a couple of messages to someone, but make them authentic messages. Make them true messages that are, you know, how are you? What do you, you know, what are you seeing in your industry? Ask questions.

Sheila Rondeau: 24:26

Don't send 5 paragraphs. Again, if you send me more than 3 sentences, the first couple of messages, unless we are going back and forth and you've asked questions and I'm providing you info, you're spamming me. You don't know me well enough to spam me. I didn't I didn't ask to be on your list. Instead, invite me to learn about you and and give me the opportunity to teach you about me.

Adam Larson: 24:51

And it's taking beyond just a sales pitch and a call. And I know that that's must be difficult for people who are doing sales and they, you know, they have quotas to match. And so trying to find that trying to find the balance between the 2 is not an easy task for anyone, really. And and

Sheila Rondeau: 25:09

you have to remember that you can't use just one tactic. The idea in sales is that you want between 8 12 touch points. And so some of that can be through social media. Some of it can be through them seeing you on social media, not necessarily you reaching out to them. So if you have good content and it gets shared a lot, people are likely to see it.

Sheila Rondeau: 25:33

You also want to do different types of social media. You can use email, go to events, be active in the community. That's how you meet people, and invite them to have a 15 minute call. And if it's a 15 minute call, respect it. When the 15 minutes are over, you ask the question if they would like to continue on because you wanna be respectful of their time, if they would like to find another time to reengage.

Adam Larson: 26:03

If

Sheila Rondeau: 26:03

not, you thank them for their time.

Adam Larson: 26:05

Yeah.

Sheila Rondeau: 26:06

Nothing worse than somebody saying, can I have 15 minutes of your time and then wanting to keep you an hour?

Adam Larson: 26:12

Yeah, very much so. Because people's time is very precious and we have very little of it. And you want to use it wisely and you want to make sure you use other people's time wisely.

Sheila Rondeau: 26:21

Absolutely. So, again, one of the great things you can do is, again, provide value so that people want to talk to you, Make the offer and let people talk about themselves. If you immediately start talking about yourself and everything is me me me me me, then people walk away feeling, again, like it's a sales pitch versus did we have an actual conversation? Do you have questions for this person about who they are, what they do, what are their goals, who in my network can bring value to you? Is there someone I can make an introduction to you?

Sheila Rondeau: 27:02

Who is your your perfect client? Is there somebody who can benefit from your services? And if I'm gonna make an ask, my ask is always, is there someone you believe would benefit from my services? Not who do you think would would would wanna do business with me? Who would benefit from knowing me?

Adam Larson: 27:25

So we can't talk about networking and talking with people without mentioning the terms like introvert and extrovert. Because anytime networking comes up, there are certain people who naturally just can chat with people and chat it up and have small talk and do that. And there's other people that it's a little more of a hurdle to do that in a live setting, but they feel more comfortable in a different setting. You know, what are some tips for people who find themselves on the introvert side, extrovert side, in the middle? You know, like, I always say I'm a I'm an I'm an introvert who pretends to be an extrovert really well.

Sheila Rondeau: 27:57

And I think you and I talked about that when we initially spoke, Adam. I am a horrible introvert. Now I can take the stage and speak in front of 5,000 people. The cocktail party or networking event is enough to make me cringe. And I look for all the reasons not to go to the point that one of the techniques I used is I created my own networking event and called it a girlfriend's network because it's not it's not enticing, intimidating to meet new girlfriends and for my girlfriends to introduce me to other people.

Sheila Rondeau: 28:34

But I also have strategies when I go to network. First of all, to get me to go because I am the worst at canceling. Like, I will pay to go to an event and not go because I just cringe at the thought of going to a networking event. So I always invite someone to meet me there. Now, don't meet me beforehand because we'll end up going to have dinner or go have a cocktail.

Sheila Rondeau: 28:59

Instead, meet me at the event and then we have an agreement that we start up together. We go find people to talk to and then we look for each other, go back to each other and then separate again. You can't stay with the person you came with because that doesn't help. But what I find is that if I, in my own mind, understand that I don't have to meet 200 people at a networking event, if it's a 2 hour networking event, I look to connect with 5 people. If in the course of 2 hours, I can meet 5 people, I can have 10 minute conversations.

Sheila Rondeau: 29:40

So it's not a collecting of business cards. Personally, if I walk out with 5 business cards, it was a better value to me than walking out with 100. Because if I walk out with 100, it means people are exchanging business cards and I'm going to end up on their email spamless.

Adam Larson: 29:59

Yeah.

Sheila Rondeau: 30:00

And none of us need more spam. Instead, if I connect with 5 people and I've had enough of a conversation with them that I spent 10 minutes with them, I found them to be interesting. I don't need to find people that I can do business with. I need to find people who are interesting because those 5 people I'm going to want to follow-up with. It is only polite to follow-up with the people that you met and you thank them for their time.

Sheila Rondeau: 30:26

Then out of those 5, you have to decide if any of them you find interesting enough that you would want to have coffee with, you would wanna have a quick Zoom call with, or you wanna know more about their business. If you can do that with 3 of them, then out of those 3, you hope that you have 2 of them that will be people that you will keep in your network and keep top of mind who will keep you top of mind. And the idea is in the course of a year and let's say 50 weeks because there are some weeks you just don't make it. If you go to one event a week, then you end up with a 100 champions in the course of a year.

Adam Larson: 31:07

Wow.

Sheila Rondeau: 31:08

You have an out of that, you have a 150 who are advocates. And you have 250 people that you have met who know your business well enough to at least let people know what you do and make an introduction. That's a whole lot better than a desk full of business cards for people you've never really met. And that's how I go into it. The other rule I always keep in mind is if I don't have time to follow-up, I don't have time to go to the event.

Sheila Rondeau: 31:40

You are wasting your time if you go to an event and you don't have the time to follow-up because why were you there?

Adam Larson: 31:49

Mhmm. Mhmm. Wow.

Sheila Rondeau: 31:51

And so my tip.

Adam Larson: 31:52

Yeah. No. I I think those are great tips because I and I love that that thought pattern. If you don't have time to follow-up, why would you go? You know, because if you're gonna make those authentic connections, you wanna build that for beyond just that that meeting.

Adam Larson: 32:05

And if you're too busy to almost not get there, will you be too busy to follow-up? Probably. And it's it's understanding your own limits and boundaries. And I think that's a very healthy way of looking at it.

Sheila Rondeau: 32:16

The other two things I keep in mind when I look at organizations to belong to, which, of course, where most of your networking opportunities come from.

Adam Larson: 32:25

Yeah.

Sheila Rondeau: 32:25

Is does the group is is part of that group people I could actually do business with or gatekeepers to those who I could do business with? Do they do business with the same type of people I do business with? So there are opportunities, not necessarily that I would do business with that person. And the other is, do they inspire me? Do they teach me?

Sheila Rondeau: 32:52

Do they motivate me? So it needs to be 1 or the other. Do they do they kinda give me that kick in the butt, or do they bring me clients? Mhmm. And you have to look at how you spend your time.

Sheila Rondeau: 33:03

And at a certain point, you can't afford to be involved in all of these events and spend your time where it doesn't help you grow your business or teach you to be a better business person.

Adam Larson: 33:17

Oh, well, Sheila, I've really enjoyed this conversation. I I appreciate all the knowledge and the wisdom you share with our audience, and I hope that they've enjoyed it as much as I have. And I just thank you again so much for coming on the podcast.

Sheila Rondeau: 33:28

Adam, thank you so much.

Announcer: 33:31

This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast providing you with the latest perspectives of thought leaders from the accounting and finance profession. If you like what you heard and you'd like to be counted in for more relevant accounting and finance education, visit IMA's website at www.ima net.org.