< Intro >

– Hello, and welcome to Count Me In.

I'm Adam Larson, and today I'm joined

by a distinguished guest, Ahmed Hassan,

Head of Decision Support at Vodafone,

Global Board Director & Middle
East Committee Chair at IMA.

In this episode, we'll dive
into how financial leaders

are expanding their influence

beyond traditional roles,
and embracing strategic,

data-driven decision making
amidst global changes

and technological advancements.

Staying ahead of the curve and
fostering continuous learning

have been key to navigating
the landscape of finance.

A world now permeated by AI,

automation, and the need
for dynamic skill sets.

So, without further ado,
let's welcome Ahmed,

to share his valuable insights
with us here on Count Me In.

< Music >

Ahmed, thank you so much
for coming on the podcast.

We're really excited to have you today,

talking about FP&A, and the
roles, and your experience.

And to start off, I thought we could
start with how has the role of financial

leadership evolved, as you
look over the past decades?

And what are the driving forces

behind those changes,
in the financial leadership?

– So, thank you, Adam.

First of all, thank you for having me today.

I'm very looking forward for a very
engaging and exciting discussion,

so thank you for that.

Thank you for the question to start
with, this is a very in-time question.

So as the finance roles are evoluting,

and actually it's not
only on the last decade.

So I think finance roles are evoluting
since almost 20 years, as we speak.

So it's undergoing significant changes

that is taking place in the
finance role as we speak.

This is turning the finance function

from the one responsible
for financial reporting,

and forecasting, and the normal
finance roles that used to be.

To the one co-driving organizations

to achieve their goals and targets.

So, currently, finance leaders
spend more than 50% of their time

on value-adding, business
partnering activities.

Rather than a typical
finance department role

and what they used to
do, a few years ago.

So now we give more focus on casting

a wider net for new efficiency
opportunities, as we go.

Boosting finance roles in managing data,

strengthening decision-making process,

through widespread adoption of
data visualization and data analytics.

So this is how we look into how we use

that data that we have, as we speak.

It's mainly for putting a very solid ground

into the decision making and
driving business, as we go.

And the role of finance leadership is
evoluting as well as this is evoluting.

So the finance leadership
has been influenced

by several global forces, as we speak.

So definitely with all what
happened in the past few years,

in terms of COVID, where we will touch
base a lot on the impact of COVID

and how this evoluted.

The overall changes that took place

in organizations and then
zooming into finance in specific.

And also all the changes that
is taking place in the world,

either from a geopolitical viewpoint,
economical, and all other changes.

So there are several global forces

that are impacting the finance
role evolution, including the growth

of digital technologies.

All the changes that I just mentioned.

The importance of sustainability,
changing demographics.

complexities that are taking place
in the geopolitics, as I mentioned,

and all the dependencies
that are making transformation

or structural transformation
a must, during these times.

All these forces actually
led to all the evolution

that is taking place in the finance role

and in the finance leadership
role, as a result, as well.

So this all led to a greater
focus on collaboration

and people-oriented leadership.

As well as the need for managers
to take important decisions,

with input from their teams based
on a very robust data analytics

that is generated from
the finance functions.

– I think that's a really good overview

in the evolution of the finance leadership,

and how the team is changing
as the environment changes.

And when you think about
the environment changing,

and the term a lot of people
use is business partner.

And, so, in order to do that transformation

that you just talked about, you have
to become that business partner.

And, so, are there key strategies
that people should consider

when they're trying to, "Hey, I want
to become that business partner.

I don't think I'm there, yet."

What are some strategies that
they can apply in their own roles,

so that they can make sure
they're becoming that?

– Okay, so transitioning, which comes
also as a result of what we mentioned,

the evolution that took place in finance.

So finance, as we speak, in different
roles, are business partners.

And this is not only in a function
that is named business partner

or decision support in finance.

I think this is across all finance roles.

So this will take place in FP&A,
as an evolution of the role.

Definitely in all decision support roles

and finance business partnering roles,

in different areas of finance operations,

treasury, tax, supply chain.

So this is all different types of
business partnering in finance.

If we need to focus on what are
the key skills or developments,

that a finance guy should
adopt to be a business partner.

We can start focusing on some points.

So building a strategic
engagement with the business.

So this is a key thing that has
to take place in a finance role.

Building strong relationships
with all stakeholders,

is fundamental to effective engagement

with different business functions.

Spending time to know your stakeholders,

understanding their priorities,
and be ready to challenge points

they may not have considered, or
maybe it's not a focal point for them.

While actually it's something
risky that you need to highlight.

Ensuring that analysis
and reporting provided

is aligning to the key strategic directions

that the stakeholders need to see,

and not only what is accessible
and meaningful to finance specific.

So it's that perfect merge between finance

and all the other business
requirements that is taking place.

One other point, actually,
that is key for finance people

to develop is developing
the strategic insight.

So insightful analysis and
reporting need to have relevance

and impact to the business in general.

This requires taking extra steps

to look at the data beyond
the routine reporting.

To understand whether there are
further questions to be explored

and what are the resulting actions
that might take place out of this.

One other point that is key

is communicating better
through visualization.

So data visualization is key
whenever it comes to finance people

So visualization is very powerful,
and it's a tool for communication

for the complex information
that you might have.

So as I'm coming from a telecom industry,

some of the terms and some of
the projects that we work on,

are very technical.

So some of them, you
need to illustrate them

in a very nice visual way.

So when you speak about
the financials of such projects.

When you speak about how
network speaks with each other.

When you speak about a new
technology that you need to adopt

and how you are business casing for this.

So data visualization is key
to make things simpler,

and to make it more adapting to the
decision making process that we have.

So communicating through
better visualizations is key.

This will make the stakeholders
understand and act on your insights

in a more easier way.

One last thing that I need to highlight

is believing in change
and sponsoring it, actually.

So change is what we live as we speak.

So in the last few years, we
are doing nothing but change.

So starting from all
the economic changes

that took place, in the last years.

Moving through COVID and
then all the geopolitical changes

that is taking place in the world,
this is all demanding us to change.

In case you are not
sponsoring such change,

this is something that will be an issue.

So sponsoring change,
being part of it is key.

This is driving, on the other side,

lots of changes technically
and the way we do work.

So all those changes have to be adopted.

You need to believe in such change.

You need to believe in what you do,
you need to sponsor it and make it

part of your normal
daily life that you have.

So being part of such changes,
sponsoring, living it is key.

This makes us open, actually, always
for new ideas, and ways of working,

and having this willingness to change

and challenge the status quo
of what we do, currently,

and how we can do it more efficient
to serve all the future demand.

So I think those are all key things
that someone needs to develop,

to transition from a normal finance
role to a business partner role.

– Well, and we can't talk
about this transition

without talking about the tools
and the platforms that you need.

Because in order to be more efficient,
in order to analyze data better,

in order to do all these
things, we need good tools.

And, so, maybe, we can discuss
a little bit about some of those tools.

What are some tools that you use,

that you support, that
you think can help somebody,

as they're coming into this role?

To become that better business partner,

and to help guide their organization

by making the best choices
because they're using good tools.

– Sure, so I'll touch base on
some of the points that someone,

as a business partner, need to adopt

in order to use it as tools for
effective business partnering.

So I'll start with some key
competencies, actually,

that finance professional should
adopt to make this happen.

So it may be start with helping to
prevent poor operational decisions,

and to get rid of all the
routine work that someone do.

Understanding your business
model and drivers is one key quality

that a finance business
partner need to put it.

As one key thing for the
business development,

and therefore their
professional development,

along with other competencies, that
includes the ability to understand

the goals and the overarching
strategies of the business.

And analyzing financial and
non-financial information,

and present recommendations to
support the decision-making process.

Additionally, business leaders seek
active partnership and collaboration

from finance professionals.

Who can grasp the larger goals
of the business and translate it,

and put it into the financial view

that needs to be very clear to the
business, and to the executives,

and top management of the business.

So all these are key tools,
actually, for finance people

to help in the decision making,

and to be very efficient and
very value-adding in their roles.

This will make finance as a role be
a champion, on the enterprise level,

and championing the transformation,

itself, is key in this.

Also, finance professionals

should focus on being
strategists and catalysts,

in addition to playing the roles
or the normal roles of finance

that they do on a regular basis.

Some other tools that helps them

actually put this into action
is the ability to understand

the goals and strategies of the business.

Definitely the analytical skills

for analyzing finance and
non-finance information.

Ability to present recommendations,

to support decision making.

Active partnership with all business
functions and business leaders.

Those are all key tools for
finance people, actually,

to be very successful business partners.

– Yes, those are great tools
because as you're evolving,

and as you're growing, you have to upskill.

You have to learn different
things as you're going along,

and it's very important.

And we can't talk about any of these
things, about technology, about tools,

without having to mention
automation, AI, technology,

how things are rapidly changing.

And, so, as the role has been changing,

you've been outlining very clearly

how the finance function role
has been evolving and changing,

and how you need to grow.

But when it comes to
things like the challenges.

You have challenges of forecasting

completely changing,
as we're going along.

What are some benefits, as you're
incorporating this new technology

into things like forecasting,
and planning, and automation,

and we're looking into
the future of finance?

What are the benefits and the challenges,

as we slowly adopt this
across the industry?

– Okay, so I think this will make
finance people more insightful

and value adding, and I'll tell you

how this will transition them
to put this on this ground.

Let's go back a bit and look
at how the evolution of Excel,

which were very basic, a few years ago,

took place and changed actually
how finance people work.

And I'm just taking this
as a very simple example,

actually, lots of other capabilities

had been developed to
make finance job far easier.

But I'll start with a very
basic, common thing,

and actually how this helped finance
people to analyze data in a better way.

Visualize it differently, and definitely
do all this in a much faster way.

This helped finance people

to have more time in understanding
the business, add more value

into the decision-making tree.

Similarly, this is what
automation is doing now.

It's facilitating the role of finance to be
faster and more insightful than ever.

This will put some systematic
and routine roles on stake, definitely,

which is the norm of any
technological evolution.

I'm not speaking about
the finance in specific.

Look at any other industry,
any other profession,

once you get automation into it,

this definitely gets some other
normal, routine jobs out of scope.

This never created a burden on anyone,

but on people that are not capable
to upskill, as you mentioned.

Upskilling is key in such a revolution,

and it's someone's role, actually, to
put upskilling people one key objective

on everyone's agenda.

This is to cope with all the changes.

This is to make them on
top of what's happening.

This is evolution that we live,
and, again, not just in finance.

As finance leaders; what we need to
do is to adopt the change, lead it,

and drive it, and put it into actions.

Putting all the efforts
to upskill our people,

to cater for all the future
needs that is taking place.

This is one key responsibility

on our shoulders, now, to
make finance move as we go

because it's now already in the
evolution that started years ago.

But it's an ongoing thing that we need
to keep very close eye on, as we go.

And I'll mention in here, an article that
I read in McKinsey, that said that

the responsibilities of finance leaders

are broader and more
diverse than ever, as we speak.

With the increased adoption
of digital technologies,

and all the other disruptive tools
that actually made our lives easier,

being part of the norm that we live now.

It was disruptive for a period,
but just because it was new.

As a normal thing that we face with
all the changes, change is not easy.

So when such disruptive tools are
in place, it's not easy to adopt.

Yet, it becomes part of
our norm, as we speak.

So by adopting all this, it's very key

and pivotal role for the
success of the organization

and strategic agendas
for each organization.

One other topic, actually, that I read

in one article by PwC,
that it's recommended

for all finance functions to serve
the ever increasing demands

placed on their resources.

By striking an appropriate
balance of insights,

compliance, control, and efficiency.

All this actually is not coming but
by adopting upskilling your people

and putting them always on top of
what's happening, and on the evolution,

and the technical evolution
that is taking place, worldwide.

– Yes, it really is, it's
taking place worldwide,

and we're recording this the day after
ChatGPT 4.0 just turned a year old.

And, so, as we're talking
about automation,

in that conversation is also generative AI,

and it's reshaping how
we do our jobs, daily.

People are putting emails
into generative AI,

and "Hey, make this
sound more empathetic."

They're doing it on little ways.

But as we look at the finance function,
and being better business partners,

and even financial leadership.

How are AI tools and these platforms

going to help enhance
our decision making,

and drive better strategic initiatives?

– As you mentioned, AI is a tool.

And as we agree, tools are
there to make our lives easier.

So it's not a tool to replace people.

It will, by evolution, again,
get rid of some of roles.

Yet, creating some more insightful roles.

And I'll give you a very simple
scale on an accounts payable,

for example, role in an organization.

Accounts payable used to be,
almost a few years or something

like 15 years, 20 years ago,

definitely dependent on
the scale of organizations,

but a team of something
like 10 to 20 people.

I don't think that it's needed now

to have all these people
doing accounts payable.

But you need them actually to do

business partnering for
different business functions.

So the volume is never decreasing,
the people that you need is still there.

It's all about how you are utilizing people,

and how you are placing people
where the value addition is needed.

AI is a tool to make this happen.

So let's agree on this as the starting point.

So based on that, AI,
as I mentioned earlier,

is just a part of something
that started a year ago.

That is expected to balance
the traditional things

that we used to do and traditional
responsibilities of finance,

into putting more time to be part of being

a strategist and a catalyst
in the organization.

AI can be applied in different sections

in finance and even in
non-finance functions.

So I'll give some examples where
AI is currently being used

in revenue and customer value
management propositions.

Some people started exploring

the use of AI in different,
various revenue enhancement

and client experience
functions, as well, and initiatives,

this is all a current use of AI.

When we go into forecasting and some
of the finance roles that are in place,

it's mainly helping them
see things differently.

Analyze data from a different angle.

Giving them more insights,
putting some risks

and opportunities more visible to them.

so, again, it's an evoluting tool

that we are doing the best
to get the best out of it.

To serve the purpose
of business partnering

and how finance people
could be more value adding,

yet, it is still in this arena.

And as we go, I think, our role is, again,

to make people up to the
latest on such technologies.

To make them part of the
change that will come out of this.

To utilize the tool rather
than to see it as a risk.

And, again, this is my opinion, definitely,
but it's still an evoluting thing.

We will see more as we go.

It's just one year of generative
AI, as you mentioned.

So I believe there are lots
of more excitement to see.

– Yes, it's going to keep evolving and,
maybe, by the time we release this,

and then soon after there's going
to be new things happening,

new things coming out,
and it's exciting to watch.

And I think as professionals, we
need to just keep an eye on it.

Making sure that we're testing it
and looking at it in the right ways.

So that way we can stay on top

and stay ahead and understand
where our organizations are going.

Where the people under us are going.

And, so, as we wrap up this conversation,

I think this has really been
a really great discussion.

I was thinking maybe you could
share a story or experience

where the things that
we've been talking about.

The things that you've learned,

that type of decision making has
really played a role in decisions

that you've had to make, and
strategies that you've come up with.

– Okay, I'll split the
question into two parts.

So the way that all the new technologies

and all the new tools that we have
helped in being more insightful.

And the other thing is how ongoing
learning, and ongoing education,

and ongoing engagement
with finance people

and the finance professional
environment can help in such a thing.

And by that, I'll touch base a bit

on how IMA is playing a pivotal role
in such engagement between people.

So starting with all the automation.

So automation again gave us more
time to be more value adding.

So I'll touch base on some things
that we are still working on

and we need to put as automated.

And whenever you look at profitabilities,

what I mean by profitability,
not the normal P&L.

It's per product, and per segment,
and per business line profitability.

How would automation and
having such a fast way,

to see how your business lines and
revenue streams are generating profits.

This definitely help and will always help
a lot in a faster decision making tools.

In order to adopt for changes
that might happen to a product,

for example, as a result of the geopolitical

changes that is taking place.

As a part of the economic downturn,
some products are not as profitable

as it used to be.

Some revenue streams, some industries,

actually, are downscaling
because of all what's happening.

So having such a view, and by a view, I
always link it to how fast you generate

such a view on business
performance, profitabilities.

What's going right and
what's going wrong.

Evaluating all the risks and opportunities.

All such strategies need to be very visible

and very fast to see in your
decision-making process.

And, again, automation and
digitization help a lot on that.

Then going to how actually
ongoing learning is helping on that.

So I'll just mention quickly,
so I'm a CMA since almost 2013.

So this is almost ten years ago.

While actually I started volunteering
with the IMA on different committees

since almost three years,
from the COVID year.

So splitting my experience
with such engagement tools,

with the finance people into two stages.

The first one when I was
a member of the IMA,

and actually how the ongoing
learning that is being acquired

through different webinars,
different events

and interactions with finance people.

Helped a lot, actually, putting
someone, always on top

of what's happening in the
profession, this is one key thing.

Then moving to stage two,

where I started volunteering with
the IMA in different committees,

and serving on the IMA
Global Board now.

This shaped actually the way I look
into our profession differently.

Because previously I was utilizing all
the tools for my own development,

and my teams, and my
industrial development.

When I took such a global view

to look at how can we
advance our profession,

definitely I took a look
from a different angle.

So from a global angle, covering
all industries and all regions,

that was key in my learnings,
currently, and as we go.

Thinking how contribution could
serve the finance profession globally,

not only in a certain
industry or a certain region.

How this could make difference

to people's career and
professional development.

This is something that I believe
it's a very valuable thing to feel,

and a very great purpose
to do for the profession.

Also, this is helping me in understanding
the latest on different new initiatives

like ESG, sustainability,
and how this links directly

to our roles as finance
people, and finance leaders.

And, finally, actually, among
the most valuable assets

that I gained out of this is people.

Where you find you are in an
unstoppable chain of learnings

and knowledge acquisition,
that takes you into places

you never imagined, actually,
that you would go for.

This is one key thing
out of such collaboration,

between different people

from different industries
and different mindsets.

And as I'm a total believer that
someone is never done learning.

So this is one key thing that I always
feel is ongoing and will never stop.

Such engagement that is being created

between finance people
within the IMA umbrella,

made this even more
emphasized and achievable,

for me and for my finance colleagues,
from all over the world, as we speak.

And this is something that is taking
place now on a daily basis, I think,

not even in a very frequent basis.

We do this actually as we
go in a very frequent manner.

So this is one key thing that helped me in
lots of my strategic views to what we do.

Helped me in my decision
making process, and the strategic

formulation of what I'm doing and
what I need to do for the future.

– Well, I think that's great

and learning a little bit about
your story, and your evolution.

And I know that IMA, as members, we
appreciate you as a board member,

and thank you so much for your service.

And it's really great to be able to connect
with folks who've had that experience.

And I just really want to thank you
for coming on the podcast.

It's been really great getting to
know you and hearing your insights,

and I know that our audience will enjoy it.

– Thanks a lot, Adam.

That was actually my pleasure and honor,

and, definitely, a pleasure
and honor to serve the IMA,

in such a view and such a place.

Thank you, for having me,

and thanks, again, for the very
exciting discussion that we had.

< Outro >

– This has been Count Me In,

IMA's podcast, providing you with the
latest perspectives of thought leaders,

from the accounting
and finance profession.

If you like what you heard,
and you'd like to be counted in

for more relevant accounting
and finance education,

visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.