< Intro >

- Hello and welcome to Count Me In.

The podcast that explores
the world of business

from a management
accountant's perspective.

This is Adam Larson,
and today my co-host Neha,

is talking to a woman

who describes herself
as an accidental CEO.

Jennifer Smith is the founder
and CEO of Scribe.

A software company
that helps businesses

capture and scale the expertise
of their top performers,

to drive new levels of productivity.

From fighting collaboration overload,
to leveraging RPA,

to attracting the right talent,

Jennifer discusses how
her obsession with efficiency

has fueled her unique and
unplanned leadership journey.

Let's start the conversation.

< Music >

- Welcome to Count Me In, Jennifer,

it's such a pleasure to
have you on the show.

- Thanks so much, I'm excited to be here.

- Awesome, so first things first,

you call yourself an accidental CEO.

Tell me more about that and what
brought you to this point in life?

- Because if you were to ask me
15, 20 years ago,

gosh, maybe even five, seven years ago,

"Would you ever be CEO?

Would you ever start your own company?"

I probably would've laughed
at you and said, "No."

It's not something I've ever thought about.

I don't know anyone who does that,

that's not in the cards for me.

I started my career as
a management consultant.

So I was at McKinsey for seven years.

I worked mostly with financial institutions

in the Oregon operations practice.

Which functionally meant
I would spend nine to five

sitting next to agents,
in operations centers,

looking over their shoulder
and watching what they did.

And if you ever do that work, you
learn the name of the game is

you figure out who the best person is,
and you sit next to them

and you say, "Well, what are you
doing differently than everyone else?"

And you find that they've found
better ways of working.

They would say, "Oh, I was trained
to do all of these things,

but here's how I do this better."

And they would show me,
they're all tabbing,

they're doing really fast
things on their computer.

They became whizzes
at finding these shortcuts

and these very complicated pieces
of software they were using.

And, as a consultant,
I would dutifully write that up

and sell that back to my client.

But I always thought like,
"Gosh, if we had a way

to just capture what these
people knew how to do.

They could have had really big impact
on that op center.

They could have helped their
colleagues all be better."

And I said, "Well, it's an obvious problem,

someone will solve that someday, surely."

And then, you fast-forward 10 years later

and then I'm working in venture capital,

and investing in enterprise
software companies.

And I spent a lot of my time talking

to buyers of enterprise software,
again, folks in financial services.

Just trying to understand like,
"What are your open problems?

What are your challenges?

What are you trying to solve?"

And this idea kept coming back.

People saying like, "Oh, gosh,
well, I or my people

are spending a lot of time doing
similar tasks over and over again.

And actually they do it differently,

it's definitely different between people, everyone finds their own way."

Sometimes it's not even consistent
within the same person.

They do something once a quarter,

they don't quite remember it,
they try to do the process,

especially, if they've
a very complicated software.

I'm like, "Wouldn't it be really nice

if there were a way to just know

what was the best of what
everyone knew how to do?"

And I don't really have
a way of doing that today.

My only option is to tell someone,

"Just take time away from doing
your actual work and please

generate a document that shows
what you know how to do."

That's not a very popular request.

And, so, I looked at it
and said, "Gosh, technology

has gotten so much better.

It's so many years later

and we're still facing
the exact same problems."

And I shifted from like, "Someone
should do something about this."

To, "Well, I don't think anyone
is doing anything about this

and they should, so I guess
I'll do something about this."

And, so, I very much did not
intend to start a company.

I cared a lot about solving
a particular problem.

I'm obsessed with efficiency.

And I just saw a massive
inefficiency in how millions,

hundreds of millions
of people around the world

are spending their nine to five,

trying to navigate these
complicated pieces of software

and trying to do it quickly,

because everyone's got
a million things going on

and everyone's just doing their best.

But most people are
doing it sub optimally

and it's taking them more time,
and they're spending a lot of time

even just trying to figure out what to do,

that's not a good feeling.

And, so, I said, "Well, gosh,
if I could solve that for people,

why would I do something else?

This feels like what I should be doing."

And, so, I started my company, Scribe,
three and a half years ago now.

- Wow, that's really insightful
and thank you for connecting it

to common business problems
that we are all facing every day.

So this reminds me of a conversation

I was having with my daughter,
she's 10 years old.

And I was telling her about
coming on this interview

and meeting you, the CEO
of the company.

And she was very curious, of course,
about the company and your work.

I was, of course, able to
help her understand

what the word Scribe means.

But how would you explain to
a fifth grader, in simplest terms,

what you and your team does?

- Yes, we actually design our software,

so a fifth grader could use it.

It's designed for people
across digital literacy.

So you could actually
tell her to just try it out,

if she's at all curious,
and she should be able to do it.

So, Scribe, very simply,
we're a desktop application

or a browser extension, your choice.

And we will watch you do work
and auto-generate step-by-step,

written guides with screenshots
showing how to do that process.

So let's say, for example, you have a client

who is constantly asking you,
let's pick something very simple,

"How do I log into my QuickBooks Portal?"

I don't know, that's probably
a question you've gotten before.

So all you would do is you would
click the Record button

and you would log into
the QuickBooks Portal,

and you would click Start Record.

And, boom, Scribe would
auto-generate step-by-step

written guide on how to log
into a QuickBooks Portal.

Again, very simple example,
but it would say,

step one, navigate to www.quickbooks.com.

Step two, click on the Login icon,
instead, it's got a little screenshot

and it shows along,
and so on and so forth.

And there's a bunch of ways, obviously,

you can edit, and customize,
and all those sorts of things.

But the idea is anything
you would need

to explain to someone how to do.

Whether that's a client who's
constantly asking you a question,

or a colleague that you're onboarding,

or a virtual assistant who's doing
some tasks for you.

It's a very easy way to capture
what you know how to do,

automatically, and share that
with other people.

Without having to take any time away

to actually write that down
or show them what to do.

My whole philosophy is you've
already done the hard part.

You know how to do something valuable.

Let's make it automatic for you

to be able to scale that knowledge

and to show someone else
how to do that.

I'll often talk about it as documentation,
as digital exhaust.

Just that byproduct, you're going
along and doing your work

and you're creating this
exhaustive documentation,

that you can now use in a variety
of different contexts.

- Wow, fantastic, and thank you
for making it easier for people,

who are new to this concept,
to understand.

You bring up automation,

so let's take it up a notch,
from the fifth graders level,

and talk about the three-letter buzzword,

RPA, Robotic Processing Automation,

which is getting a lot
of spotlight these days.

But then, sadly, it remains just a buzzword

for many people in small
and medium organizations.

How can RPA, or automation like this,

help finance and accounting people
in these small companies?

- Yes, RPA is an area
I've spent a lot of time in.

I would take it up from
RPA to automation.

There's a lot of excitement around RPA.

RPA, in particular, means I will replicate

what a human does using software.

So it's almost like a layer on top
of your existing systems,

and you build these very manual flows

that will click through software
as if a human were clicking.

I've talked to a lot of
Fortune 500 companies

that have implemented RPA.

They do these big RPA programs.

They set up these centers of excellence

and they do very good work.

I'll tell you, most of them, over beers,

will tell me, "I'm not quite satisfied.

These things work,
but they work 70% of the time."

And then you've got these edge cases, something's a little bit different,

the software UI changes there.

There's a lot of difficulty and nuances

when you're talking about RPA.

Automation, more broadly,
it's just this concept

of how do I use software to do tasks

that I otherwise would
have to be doing?

And that I get very excited
about, especially,

if you're in a small business
because time is money.

You have limited resources,
limited number of people,

we see this with our customers.

We're across hundreds
of thousands of organizations

in over a hundred countries,
pretty widespread everywhere

from a solo person, all the way up
to folks in Fortune 50 banks.

And we often see it's
the small business owners

who are the ones who
are most passionate about,

"How do I save time?"

Because it's limited number
of resources, time is money.

"I could be spending
this time servicing a client.

Instead, I'm going through
and generating reports

and doing these kinds of tasks
that I could automate."

And, so, what I would think
about is anytime

you are doing something
that feels repetitive.

That feels like, "Gosh, I do this
over and over again

or I do some variation
over and over again."

Think about, "How can I automate this?"

And your mind might, immediately,

go to a very complicated
automation systems.

And that is great, if you are
at that level of complexity,

most people are not.

And, so, I would think even
at the levels of templates.

Here is a really mild automation,

are you sending a very similar
email every month

to clients notifying them of something?

Or when you're generating a report

and you're sending it out.

Depending on your email client,

you can create automatic templates.

You hit a couple of hotkeys and, boom,

it automatically pastes into your email.

And then you can change
the person's name

and personalize customers,
whatever you need to do.

But where are the moments like that

where it feels like it's simple and it is,
but it adds up over time.

And, so, I would start
thinking about automation

from anytime you feel like
you're doing something,

you say like, "Gosh, this really doesn't

feel like a use of my specific talents."

Find software to do it,

because I bet there is software
out there to do that.

Whether it's really simple macros,

all the way to custom solutions

that will help you, automatically,
flag uncategorized expenses

and send it to a client
or something like that.

- Those are some really
good examples, Jennifer.

And talking about repetitive tasks

and tasks that people don't like
doing, knowledge management

and process documentation always-

- What, not everyone's favorite?

- Definitely not everyone's favorite,

but these are still very important tasks.

Not just from compliance perspective,

but they're becoming
more and more important

because people are now working
asynchronously in remote teams.

So what have you seen
are the most common

knowledge management mistakes
that people make?

- Not doing it, is the short answer.

So most people I talk to have some
basic knowledge management

We have some wiki,
we have made some attempt,

we've done something.

And then I say, "Well, how's
that going for you?"

And I have yet to hear, "Great."

For most people, they're like, "Oh, it
works for this and works for that."

And, I mean, there's many
challenges with it,

but one of the big ones
is just the amount of time

it takes to create documentation.

You have finite, you've got eight hours
in a day that you're working

or whatever your workday is.

And you've probably got
10 hours' worth of work

to do in those eight hours.

And, so, you're making ruthless
prioritization decisions all day long.

And when you say, "Oh, could I send
this one more thing to a client,

or complete this one more task

versus sit here and write out
what I know how to do?"

Which task are people going to pick?

They're going to pick
the direct output at all times,

it's more urgent for sure.

And maybe even, arguably, more important
depending on the task.

And, so, this is where we thought
a lot about with Scribe.

We said, "Well, gosh, a big problem

is the world is vastly under-documented."

I know that's not a sexy and exciting
thing to say, but it is true.

And it manifests in that it creates
a lot of problems for companies.

It makes it much harder
to onboard new people.

It means that your people who are there,

even if they've been there
for five, 10 years,

you yourself are spending time
doing these repetitive tasks.

And maybe you're not even
doing them correctly.

McKinsey did a study,
of course, I was at McKinsey

I have to mention McKinsey.

I was not part of the study though.

McKinsey did a study where
they estimated that

the average knowledge worker,

spends one day a week trying
to find info on how to do their job

or explaining to someone else
how to do their job.

That's a day a week of just like,
"Hey, how do I generate this report?"

"Hey, how do I act?

How do I file my return?"

"Hey, can you show me
where do I go to the IRS Support?"

"Hey, how do I get this in?"

And there are these small micro-moments

throughout the day, and it feels like
not that big of a deal,

but you add all of that up
and that's a day a week.

And, so, 20% of your time you're
spending doing all of these things.

And, so, now in the context
of that documentation,

what if I said documentation could
give you that 20% time back?

Say, well, oh, no, that gets exciting to me.

And with Scribe, we think about,
"Well, how do we make

that documentation automatic for you?"

So you're not sitting there
saying, "Hey, I have to decide,

or do I do this task,
or create documentation?"

And we say, "What if we can
make that an and?"

What if while you're doing the task,

you just hit that Record button

and you automatically
create documentation."

Now you've found a way to scale
what you know how to do.

You've made your knowledge
almost like software or media,

which are really scalable elements,
versus one-on-one answers.

"Oh, I'm writing out
an answer to an email."

Or someone pings me
and says, "Hey, can you give me

a quick call and show me how to do this?"

I mean, how many of those
have we got?

- Oh, God, I've sent many of those.

- Yes, I definitely have, too,
we all have been on both sides,

and it's not fun being on either side.

I'm talking about it from
the perspective of the person

answering repetitive questions,

but being the person asking
them isn't really fun either.

Because you've already probably gone in

and tried to do it yourself
and hit a couple of roadblocks.

Maybe you said a few
swear words to yourself

and then you said,
"Oh, this is not working."

And then you go, "Oh, God, who can
answer this question for me?

Okay, how do I get in touch with them?"

You're going through this whole process.

And, so, what if you just
had all of that info,

automatically, available to those people?

So when they were going to do that
process, it was just there for them.

They didn't even have
to spend those cycles going

and finding someone else.

And, so, if you can find
a way to do it in-and

and our software is one way to do this.

Where you're just, automatically,
creating this process documentation,

now you just have way more documented.

So to your question, "What
are people doing wrong?"

Now you have way more documented,

and now you can do a lot more with that.

You can avoid questions, in the first place.

You can make it so that now when
a colleague goes to do something,

rather than them saying, "Oh, I don't know,

I only do this once a quarter,
I forget how to do this."

Or "I have never done this before."

And instead of them having
a mild panic moment

trying to figure it out,
they can just go find Scribe

or the documentation that you've created,

and they'll have their answer.

And that's, let me tell you,
a really delightful experience,

when you say like, "Oh, gosh,
I had a question

and, boom, it was immediately answered.

I didn't even have to go
through this whole process."

- Wow, and that's definitely
a blessing for people

who are working in another time zone,

where they don't have
the luxury of same time.

- Yes, and that's even worse,

because then you've got
a question, and now you're gated.

- Mm-hmm.

- People you need aren't available then,

and you're probably sitting there
trying to figure it out yourself.

And you're puddling through

and, especially, when we're
using complex software.

It's not always completely obvious
how to do something,

especially, if it's a complicated process.

And, so, you're sitting there muddling through and trying to figure it out.

And those are both real-time costs,

and I would argue, emotional costs too.

We assume that's the cost of
doing business, of doing work,

that you're going to spend time
trying to figure things out.

But next time you're a little confused,

check yourself emotionally.

And what you'll see is you're frustrated,

you're extending energy
just kind of trying

and you're like, "Ugh, I just need
to get this thing done.

I need to move on,
I got my 10 other tasks."

- And talking about frustration,
I also remember you mentioning

something called collaboration overload.

- Yes.
- Help us understand

what you mean by that and how can listeners in accounting and finance,

but also leadership positions
can avoid this overload.

- Yes, so I think it got a lot worse
during the pandemic,

and it's really been driven by
something that is a good thing,

which is the fact that we now have

all of this collaboration software.

We have all this software
that makes it really easy for us

to communicate with each other.

Whether that's Zoom or Slack,
someone is, literally, just a keystroke

and hitting enter, away from being
able to connect with them.

And I'm the CEO of a software
productivity company.

And, so, it's counterintuitive
that I would say this,

but these things almost
have been too much.

It is too easy now for me
to get in touch with people.

And, so, what you end up with,

and we saw this, in particular,
at the height of the pandemic,

is you spend so much of your time
collaborating with other people.

Whether it's being in meetings,

answering Slacks, answering emails, whatever you're using.

Different pings, phone calls,
text messages, WhatsApp,

so many ways for people to get in touch

with you and ask you their questions.

And, so, what you often end up with

is you spend a lot of your day
collaborating with other people.

And at the end of the day,
you can come home

and your spouse can say,
"Hey, honey, how was your day?"

And you can say, "Oh, my gosh,
it was so busy."

But here's my question
or challenge to you,

did you actually get work done?

Did you actually do the core output
of what your job is?

Or did you spend a lot of your time
in what feels very busy,

but just communicating and
collaborating with other people?

And, so, I like to think
a lot about how do you make

that collaboration much more productive

and have it be much more about

the core things that are output related.

And, so, obviously, Scribe
is part of that story.

Like, "Hey" instead of someone...

we're trying to avoid those pings.

So instead of someone
hopping on a Zoom with you,

or give me a phone call
to try to show someone

how to do something in a one-to-one way,

just shoot them a Scribe.

The average Scribe
takes 56 seconds to create,

and two seconds to copy
and send to someone.

And, so, find those moments.

How many of those
can you just bat away

with something that's more,
to your point, automatic.

You feel like minor automations

but they actually add up
to real amounts of time.

There are psychological studies

that will say, "For every ping that you get,

every interruption in your day."

You hear that sound of
the Slack message go ding

or whatever it is that you're using.

"You lose anywhere between five
to 20 minutes of actual work."

Because of the context switching
that's required for your brain

to get back into that same
deep flow, generative state

if you were doing something
important and hard.

And, so, these things feel
really innocuous at the time.

"Oh, Joe is just asking me
another question, that's great,

I really like Joe, no big deal."

But when Joe and Joe's friends
ask you 10 times a day,

you just lost anywhere between
50 and 200 minutes of time,

and time is the thing that we all have
as their most limited resource.

And, so, can you find ways
to reduce those

so they don't come in the first place,

and when they do manage them
more appropriately.

So, to your question, for leaders,

for example, maybe setting
the expectation that

when you were doing deep work,

you are not available on Slack
for a couple of hours.

My team, well, when someone's
head is down on work,

they put a little emoji, we use Slack,

whatever it is you use, but we use Slack,

and we put a little emoji of
someone wearing headphones.

It's to indicate like,
"I am doing work right now,

please don't Slack me unless it's urgent."

- Okay.
- And then you come back on

and you can batch these things together.

- I like that, and I like how you contrasted

collaborating with a self-study
kind of format.

Where you get the answers
without having to ask for them.

And also how it connects
to setting the expectations

and boundaries around
your work and your time,

which is really precious, of course.

So I would like to pivot from here
to your own journey.

And I was reading through it
and you've been quite vocal

about how your startup journey
went hand-in-hand

with your motherhood journey.

And we, absolutely, we can spend

an entire episode just talking about that.

But let's talk about your role
as the CEO in Scribe,

and what strategies do you use,

in your company, to promote
inclusion in the workplace?

- Yes, we think a lot about talent

and our talent value proposition.

And any time you're leading teams,

you got to think about like,
"Why are these people here?"

Well, you think about your value props
to your customers all the time,

you got to do the same thing
for your people and your team.

And, so, that starts with
thinking about recruiting.

Who am I bringing in the door?

And, so, we think a lot about...

We've sort of had a mantra with Scribe,

I tell everyone in our first conversations,

when they're debating joining Scribe,

"I want, at the end of your time
at Scribe, for you to say

that this was the most rewarding
experience of your career.

What would that look like?"

Hopefully, it's long time.

"At the end of that time,
well, what would that look like?

What would you say at the end
of that time to be,

'Hey, that was the most
rewarding experience for me.'"

Put another way; "What does
success look like for you?"

And then I'm trying
to map up is that the journey

that we're on with Scribe?

And do I think we have the opportunity
to provide that to someone?

And if we don't, then I say,
"Great, that's a really great goal

that you have for yourself.

Let me make introductions
to three other people

who might be able to help you.

Don't come do that here at Scribe,
we're not set up for that."

So there's a whole kind of, upfront,

are we in alignment with our goals
and what success looks like?

And then when someone's in the door,

it's continuing to check in with
them because things change.

Company changes,
people's goals change,

and it's still saying like,
"Are we still in alignment?

Are we still on track?

Are we giving you
the opportunities that you want?

Are you learning how to do things?"

And we say we want to find people
who are great at their craft

and want to become
excellent at it at Scribe.

And to us, that's creating an environment

that is really respectful,
that is very transparent,

but where people still
challenge each other.

And, so, we really hire
for a growth mindset.

Where people say, "I want to
constantly keep getting better

and I want to do that here."

And, so, what you'll find is that our team

is incredibly supportive of each other.

We do, at our team, all hands,
we'll do shout-outs and gratitude's

for the last five minutes,
and it's just people spreading love.

Like, "I want to give
a shout-out to Thomas

who answered this question for me
so quickly, and he did it... "

And then Thomas, "Oh, but you
were really great at that."

Everyone is very quick
to give thanks to everyone,

but they'll also push each other.

"Hey, we did really great last month,

but let's do even better this month.

What would it look like if we doubled that?

What would it look like if we shipped
this thing even faster?"

And, thankfully, this culture
becomes self-reinforcing.

When you bring in people

who want to work in
this kind of environment,

and then you give them
this kind of environment,

then that grows over time.

And, so, that means you're able
to attract people

from a variety of different backgrounds.

And they're all united in this idea

of just wanting to get great
at what they're doing

and do it in this kind of environment
and this kind of culture.

And, again, we design
our recruiting process

so that it becomes very clear to people,

during recruiting, what our culture
and our feeling is.

So I'll often when I'm having
a last conversation

with the candidate, right before
we're about to make an offer,

and I say like, "Do you have
any other questions?"

Usually the answer is no, they're like,
"I've met people on your team.

I have such a great sense
for what people are like at Scribe.

This feels like my tribe of people,
this is really what I want."

Or they've self-selected
out of the process.

And, so, I think really leading
with what is your culture

and what does it mean to be here?

It gives people a sense
and they can self-select in or out,

and we don't think about diversity

in terms of we have to have a set number

of targets or anything like that.

We actually don't even really track it

other than I looked at it the other day

and we are 70, 75% women

are underrepresented minorities.

And that's because
we've thought a lot about

how do we create an environment

where people can just show up

and do work they feel really proud of.

That's our uniting goal together,

and that means you get
all different kinds of people.

But everyone wants to do great work

and they're really excited to do it

with this other group of people.

- Awesome, and that's a great way

to look at diversity and inclusion
in any organization.

I also love the questions
that you're asking

and being open to
the answers that you get.

Not all of them are going
to be what you expect,

but it's good to hear those things.

I hope the leaders who are listening
to this are taking notes.

- Those are the best questions to ask.

Where you don't know the answer

and you want to go into it not being
tied to a particular outcome.

Because really what you're trying
to do is find the best answer

for both people, and when it works
then it really works.

When someone says like,
"Oh, I really want to do this."

And you say like, "We can support you
in doing that here."

That's magic on both sides.

And if someone comes
describing and they're like

"I want to become the best computer
vision engineer in the world."

Then I say, "Great, you should
go to Google.

They have snapped up
almost all of the world's

great computer vision engineers,
go apprentice with those people.

That is the best place for you."

That means I lose
a potential engineer, sure,

but now I've freed up
a spot for an engineer

who really wants to be here

and who wants to do the things
that we're working on,

and that's a win-win on both sides.

- Right, and talking about young engineers

or young people who
are entering the workforce.

What advice would you give
to younger professionals,

not just in finance accounting,

but overall people who are listening
to this podcast.

On how they should be
navigating their lives

and careers as they move forward?

- I had a professor in business
school who said something

I thought pretty profound, at the time,

and I didn't think much of it.

And now I look back on it
and realize just how wise it was.

He said, "Find the thing
that you are always

apologizing for about yourself
and find a way to get paid for it."

So, for me, I'm obsessed with efficiency,

and I was constantly told,
in work environments,

that I was too fearless.

I would just go off, I'd see a problem

and I'd just go off and try to solve it.

And they'd be like, "No, that's
not how things work here,

you're 24-years-old."

And they're like, "No back-off, there's a process, follow the hierarchy, et cetera."

And I learned over time to do that.

And that was fine and good,
but now that I reflect back,

I feel like I left a lot on the table

in trying to conform
to those environments.

And instead saying, "Well, gosh,
I have this passion around

the kinds of problems I'm solving
and ways of working.

What if I could just find
a different environment

that actually fits those things

rather than trying to tell me
to change and conform."

And sometimes that's right
and feedback is good.

But if you're hearing it time and time again

and you say like, "Oh, gosh,
this is a spike I have,

and maybe it's a liability in this context,

but it could actually be really
great in another context."

And, so, rather, I think, we often
try to smooth out our spikes

and become more polished stones.

And I actually think the
most successful people I know

are really freaking, spiky corals.

They're really good at some things

and not so good at other
things, and that's fine,

Great, find a way to spend most
of your time doing those things

that you're really great at

and the stuff that you're not good at

automate away, delegate away.

Get into a different job

where you've got more support
around those areas.

Whatever it is, just lean into
the things that you're good at,

and try to spend as much of your time

doing those things that
you're really good at.

And that's an efficiency story,
that's an effectiveness story,

and that's, frankly, a happiness story,

and I think that's the most
important part of it.

Chances are if you're good at
something, you enjoy doing it

- True, and another thing
that I think our listeners

can take away from this is being fearless.

Whether it's about solving problems
when you're not supposed to,

or taking that accidental CEO
position that lands in your lap.

- If someone tells you you're fearless

and they mean it as not a compliment,

as something to work on,
note it in your head

and say like, "This is very
kind of this person

to be giving me this feedback.

Feedback is a gift;
I'm going to ignore that."

Or "I'm going to, maybe,
in this environment

understand the way to operate,

but I'm going to secretly
cultivate that about myself

because that can be your superpower."

< Music >

- This has been Count Me In,
IMA's podcast, providing you

with the latest perspectives
of thought leaders

from the accounting
and finance profession.

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