Welcome back for episode
179 of our podcast series.

This is your host Neha Lagoo Ratnakar,

and you're once again
listening to Count Me In,

IMA's podcast about all things affecting
the accounting and finance world.

Today, you're going to hear
from Sammy Courtwright,

the co-founder of Ten Spot.

Ten Spot is a workforce
engagement platform helping

companies enhance their
work from home capabilities.

Sammy joins us to talk about how
technology has impacted today's work

environment,

what it means for our work life balance
and what the future of the workforce

looks like based on current trends.

Keep listening as we head
over to the conversation now.

So right before we started recording here,

we were talking a little bit about how
things have changed over the last couple

years, and to kick off our conversation.

I'd like to first ask how has
technology impacted work being

done at work?

Yeah, Mitch, I mean,

what a change we were
faced two years ago, right?

Where suddenly we were thrown into
remote or distributed work and

technology,

thank goodness was able to make that
transition moderately seamless. Right?

Of course there was always that idea of
having to figure out which technology

we're going to use. Does it work?
Does everyone know how to use it?

Is it effective? Now we
have to buy more licenses,

but it's definitely made this
working from home or hybrid work

significantly more
streamlined collaborative,

but it's also made it really constant,
right? I feel like you're always on,

which is a good thing and a
bad thing for some people.

I think at the beginning of the pandemic,

when things were a little
bit slower Netflix and all
of those other subscription

services, weren't pumping
out the content as quickly.

You might just check another email.

You might respond or start working on
a project. And while that was great,

I think now we've realized
that we went too far,

perhaps in one direction
of always being on.

And I think now people are being a
little bit more clear or understanding of

creating better boundaries with
technology. So when am I on,

how do I set myself up for success?
Am I balancing that a little bit more?

So technology definitely impacted the
work that we're able to do from anywhere,

not necessarily from your home. But
it comes with some pros and cons.

Absolutely. And I think anybody
listening can relate. So, you know,

you mentioned balance here and I want to
get into that work life balance because

it is so easy to work remotely and through
the different tablets and laptops and

phones and everything,
that's at our fingertips.

So what are some of the things that
people can do to really just shut off

both, you know, work and technology
so that we can really, you know,

make strides towards
this work life balance?

Sure.

So I have found that I'm paying far
more attention to my screen time.

At least Apple has this function.
I'm uncertain about other models,

where it tells you how much time you're
spending on your screen. Similarly,

apps like Google have taken a further

kind of dive into the calendar settings
and has allowed you to take a look at

your calendar and understand when there
is focus time when there is shutoff

time, when there is even on my phone,

I've set up sleep time where it knows
that I'm gonna be winding down to go to

sleep at a certain hour. So it starts
going into, to kind of shut off mode.

I don't really access social media at
that time, or it lets me know that, Hey,

you're in sleep mode. You might
not wanna be checking, you know,

Instagram right before you go to
bed. It makes you a lot more aware.

I don't think that I even really had
that visibility or was aware of how much

time I was spending either on my
computer tablet or phone, but now that

Apple, at least,

and many other applications are really
starting to focus on how much time you

are spending using technology.

I think it's helped me create a better
boundary of switching off or not

always being on. I really think
awareness is kind of the key to this.

So for people that are asking that
like Hey I'm uncertain, you know,

what to do to get started. I always
recommend take a look at your calendar,

take a look at your habits and your day,

and just start jotting down
things that you're doing.

How much time are you spending
on that specific project?

How much time are you spending
in front of the computer?

Are you getting up to get that glass of
water or do you wait until, you know,

that specific task is done before you
reward yourself with getting up and,

you know, getting that glass of water,

those things make a really big difference.

And they even say those 10 to 15 seconds,

30 seconds breaks that
you can take to, you know,

get up and go refresh your
water or whatever it might
be. Grab a cup of coffee,

really recharges your brain and
allows you to be more creative.

So I think for those that
are looking, you know,

to maybe just get started and want to
shut off or create more boundaries,

start documenting what you're doing
and how you're using technology and

start creating a little bit more limits.

What do you wanna do with that time
instead? Is it, you wanna read a book?

You wanna meditate more,
you wanna go for a walk,

you want to spend more time with your
kids. You wanna play with your dog.

I think for those moments, and you
can even put them into your calendar,

block out those moments have been really
effective and helps people at least

shut off,

from both work and technology to kind
of maintain that healthier work life

balance.

You know, I use focus time
throughout the week, you know,

on my calendar and other thing,
turning off the phone and sleep mode,

all that stuff. The whoop band that
I have tells me when to go to bed.

So I know all right, it's time to shut
everything else down, leave it alone.

So there is, there are so
many options available to us.

Really you just have to seek them out
and take advantage of 'em. I think,

because it's so helpful, at least in
my personal experiences, you know,

but that's on the personal side of things.

And obviously everybody has
gotten relatively accustomed to a

different kind of work life balance.

And as they adjust to everything
you are mentioning, you know,

they are seeking new things
I think from work, right.

And we're seeing a lot happening
in the workforce today.

So my next question for you is kind of
taking it back to business a little bit,

if you will. And from the
employer's perspective,

with the idea of work life balance
in mind, how should these employers,

how should these businesses really work
to keep employees engaged and retain

them? You know, like I said, with
everything else going on today.

Yeah. I always think the first
step is to acknowledge it.

I think employers are now
realizing that employees are not

just employees anymore,

that they're people with lives
outside of work. And in reality,

I know that this has always been the case,

but anyone who has been on a zoom
call in the last like 18 months now,

we all know a lot more about their dogs,
their cats, their kids, their partners,

their parents. We know so much more
about our colleagues and coworkers lives.

I really think this blurred
line of work and life encouraged

employees to expect their companies to
consider and acknowledge their whole

selves and all of these roles
that we play outside of work,

whether that's parenthood or caring
for an aging parent or pursuing

a passion like playing in a band or
taking a yoga teacher training class

get an advanced degree, you
know, whatever it might be.

I think that there's a lot
more acknowledgement that
there is more than just

work Sammy showing up every day.

I have all of these other roles and
responsibilities that I play and employers

have to acknowledge that and recognize
that to keep employees engaged.

I also really think like
this idea or approach to like

360 degree wellness,
mental, physical, social,

flexibility with work hours. I think
employers really need to start.

And I, and I see a lot of
companies moving this direction,

but stop offering these
blanket benefits or these one

size fits all approach. I really
think that employees today,

no matter what their age is
have come to desire, you know,

a range of health and wellness benefits
that are really robust and could greatly

impact their lives.

I think companies now are offering more
of a marketplace approach or a stipend,

so it can be used for whatever
you deem to be wellness.

And I think that kind of expands
the availability of the service,

the access to the service,

and it's really customized to what
the employees need at that time.

And I think that's another really
great way to keep employees engaged

and retained at work.

You know, it's so true. I was
actually just talking to somebody,

a friend of mine started a new job and
he was telling me about the different

incentives that come with the
new job and at the company,

things like a barber shop in the office
and somebody coming in once a week,

you know, things that handling a
stipend for dry cleaning. So you can,

you know, keep up with your work attire
when you have to come to the office.

I called them practical incentives,
right. Things that people do.

And I think that's so helpful,

but I know you have some more ideas
in this space and, and, you know,

there are fun classes and things that
employers can do to keep their employees

engaged, but if perks and
remote work and you know,

some of these other practical incentives
aren't enough, what else can be done?

Because I think that's another trend.
You know, what else, or, you know,

how much more can I
get is kind of a theme.

So what else can these employers
do for their employees?

Sure. There's a couple of things I
wanna hit on. I think training is in,

you know,

professional development is one of them
also building a sense of community in

the workplace,

especially when employees
are working remotely.

I really think younger workers
specifically, you know,

Gen Z are relying on the workplace
to provide them with opportunities

for socialization.

We recently ran a survey
and we learned that 62% of

gen Z workers are really enthusiastic
about the positive impact virtual

events have had on their company.

So these virtual events could be anything
from a company wide trivia night,

a scavenger hunt, a team wide scavenger
hunt, a cocktail crafting class.

These really fun and unique events
are opportunities that aren't

focused on work, per se. Sure.
This isn't like, you know,

brainstorming session for the next
project that you're working on,

but it's opportunity for socialization
it's opportunity for building that

sense of community.

That is kind of outside of these perks
and benefits that we were discussing

previously that is really important to
creating a cohesive and synced team.

And I really think, you know,
because of this work home transition,

the number of individuals that
have really relied on work,

providing them those opportunities
has really increased.

So I'm gonna put heavy weight on
building a sense of community.

And then let's kind of touch on
training because I mentioned that or

professional development,

there was this report in 2018
that just like blew my mind.

59% of managers had
never had any training on

how to manage people. Now this
is 2018 when this data came out.

Now imagine with the pandemic,

you are potentially starting at a new
company and you're promoted as a manager.

And you're like, oh my
gosh, this is so exciting.

I'm gonna get a title change
and potentially, you know,

a salary increase and I'm
responsible for people. And that's,

what an incredible accomplishment.
Then you sit back and think, hold on,

my whole team is remote.

I haven't really managed distributed
teams before. How do I connect with them?

How do I build that sense of community?
How do I make sure that they're getting,

you know, feedback on career development
and whatever else it might be.

And that's a really big issue
that managers are facing today,

and it's not just managers
professional development in general.

So I really think that
training professional
development courses that can be

done on individuals own time to
really help advance their career

might be that extra edge.

If those perks and remote work aren't
enough to really keep employees engaged at

work.

It is amazing.

And there's so much data out there
now about who's changing jobs and the

responsibilities like you
just mentioned, and, you know,

everything is exponentially increasing
at this point. It's great opportunity.

It leaves a lot of gaps as
well. And I think you hit it.

It's all about training and making sure
that everybody on your team is up to

speed with the needs and everything's
aligned with the organization, you know,

but I wanna talk a little bit more about
that as people are transitioning from

job to job and move up in
their careers and such,

there is something to
be said for continuity.

I think so as far as managers
and manager training and keeping

individuals in place
or, or really qualified,

what can organizations and, or, you know,

managers of managers do to kind of
combat this trend and really try to build

this team up

find this continuity and continue
moving forward as a group, you know,

as opposed to leaving and
hiring new individuals.

Sure. Yeah. Look, I think
there are good managers.

There are great managers.

And then unfortunately there are managers
who make you wanna quit your job.

And in the same survey that we ran,

we learned that 46% of workers say
that they currently have a manager or

a team lead that makes
them wanna quit their job.

So for companies that are already
kind of struggling with retention,

this isn't fantastic news.
And it's interesting to
think about because you know,

when employees are burned out, they
turn to their managers for help.

But when managers are burned out,
who are they supposed to turn to?

I really think training managers
on how to be effective remote

leaders is really important.
And as I mentioned earlier,

I think so many people have kind of
been promoted throughout the pandemic or

have stepped into new roles
and responsibilities that
they've never had before.

And they're expected to
manage a team remotely.

And there just hasn't been
training available for that.

And it's kind of bonkers.

So I think focusing on this management
training will really reduce attrition,

not only for the individuals
being managed by set manager,

but also for the managers themselves.

There's nothing worse than feeling
like you are not set up for success.

It's all well and good that you've been
moved into this role or that you're

managing individuals for the
first time. And you think, wow,

what a career opportunity. But then
you look back and you're like, wait,

I haven't been set up for
success for this role.

I don't actually know how to
effectively lead these teams.

I don't actually know
what's required of me.

I know that employees have all these
expectations or my team has all of these

expectations of me, but
how do I execute on that?

Who's going to help either mentor me or
provide me with the resources so I can

actually be successful in this role.

So I think manager training
will really combat this,

these concerns and put managers
in a fantastic position

to really succeed and nail,
you know, their position,

whether they be remote hybrid
in office, all of the above.

All right. So I wanna
wrap up this conversation,

but I do have somewhat of a loaded
question for you. I know we were again,

before we started recording, we
were talking about it's, you know,

it's time to be proactive. Let's
start looking in the future.

Let's not reflect so much on
what's been happening in the past.

So with that idea in mind,

I want to get your thoughts on what
the future of our workforce looks like.

Because of all these trends,
everything we've talked about. So for,

but now let's take it into the
future. What can we expect?

What should people be doing? You
know, please share your thoughts on,

on what is to come for this workforce.

Great question.

And these are just my thoughts based on
trends that I've seen and conversations

I've been having.

I think we can all safely say that the
option to be remote or fully remote will

be the norm. I think that
this is not going anywhere,

but I am really intrigued
by the freelance space.

And this is either that you are a
freelance worker or that you work for a

company, but you potentially could
work for multiple companies at once.

I don't know about you Mitch,

but I have several friends that are
actually running a couple or three

full-time jobs at once.
And it's pretty incredible.

I know it's already happening now,

but I really think that this will become
a common practice and a kind of less

taboo right now. They're doing it, you
know, moonlighting or under the radar.

But I think in the future, it might
just be like, Hey, here's great talent.

How could we attach this great talent
to multiple projects across different

companies and to kind of, you know,

use them for a specific amount
of time and they, you know,

obviously get paid for their work,

but then they can also get
exposure to different companies,

handle different projects or challenges.

I think the freelance world will
get really interesting very soon.

Also I think I mentioned this earlier,

but being really customized with the
employee experience and that's from like

hiring through to retiring.

I really think AI is gonna play
a major role in how you know,

employees are going to shape their
careers. I also think, you know, Gen Z,

I talked about them earlier.

I think they're gonna really have a
significant impact on today's workplace.

And you know,

how we think about technology and
company culture and world issues

specifically also workplace issues like
discrimination and diversity, equity,

and inclusion,

how companies deal with a lot of these
workplace and pressing social and

political issues. I also
think, you know, we might,

we talked about this earlier.

Maybe there'll be a toe dipped in the
four day work week or something a little

bit more flexible. The idea that you
get work done when you work best.

And you know, companies will kind
of begin to ebb and flow with that.

This has been Count Me In,

IMA's podcast providing you
with the latest perspectives
of thought leaders from

the accounting and finance profession.
If you like what you heard,

and you'd like to be counted in for
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education, visit IMA's
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