Welcome back to Count Me In,

IMA's podcast about all things affecting
the accounting and finance world.

Here with you again, as
your host, Adam Larson,

as I kick off episode 157 of our series,

Count Me In has shared a number of
conversations relating to business

transformation,

but today's featured guest speaker shares
a unique perspective on the topic Wes

Saber,

CFO of HARIBO of America joined us to
talk about how the finance function and

finance leaders serve as best copilots
for any business transformation journey.

Wes is a great leader who constantly
encourages his staff as he promotes change

and transformation.

So keep listening to hear more as
we head over the conversation now.

We have heard a lot about
business transformation,

particularly in finance and accounting.

So to kick off our conversation today
from your perspective and through your

experiences, really my
first question is why?

Why is this such an important
topic for our listeners?

Thank you very much for having me today.

Business transformation is the
constant, in the current business world.

Business transformation is important
to keep the business relevant,

the strategy of the business
agile and us as professional,

very relevant in terms of competency
and business acumen as we go. Business

transformation is a journey that has
different milestone as we grow as a

business and as professional, it's very
important to be able to adapt change.

What makes finance and accounting
professionals and overall

business professionals successful in
their career is the world resilience and

business resilience. And
us being as professionals,

resilience is being demonstrated
during business transformation in a

form of a project in a
form of system change,

even culture evolution as well.

So there is so many transformation
that happens around us.

Sometimes we're directly in the middle
of it as professional as finance and

accounting professional.

And sometimes we are in the co-pilot seats
and sometimes we're impacted with it.

So it's very important to understand

where we sit as professional in
terms of the business transformation.

Well, thank you for that. Very good
perspective to kick things off.

And I want to go in a little bit more
about your personal experiences and,

you know, your

company HARIBO is a 100
year old private company.

Now there's been a lot of innovation
and modernization since inception.

So as an established company,

how have you been able to manage such
a digital transition over this time?

So,

I'm proud to be working
me and my colleagues in a
company that's privately owned

and celebrate a hundred
years, December, 2020. And,

as we are proud of the values
we live and the company, we are,

very proud of the projects and the
success that we achieve every year.

In HARIBO of America, we

started a growth journey,

starting 2015 and we're embarking
in building our brand and

our business capability and manufacturing
facility and our organization and

culture. We are predominantly
a European company,

that adds most and the majority
of the business in Europe,

but the North America business
is, taking off, starting 2015.

So it's kind of like a startup in our
hundred years old company and looking

into the future,

especially after what
happens in 2020 with the

pandemic. It's important to
look at that as a challenge.

However, it's more critical to
look at that as an opportunity and

prepare ourselves, for the
future to be able to compete.

digitization of business,
there can be an aspect of,

simply handling data to all the
way to producing a product. We are,

embarking on, opening our, new

first North America manufacturing
facility next year in 2022. And,

we are talking these
days about industry 4.0.

Remote guided vehicles,
robotics, big data,

troubleshootings and to be
able to actually utilize
our scale and be efficient

and get the best quality of
our products to consumer.

And as a professional and different
functions, including manufacturing,

engineering, sales, and
finance and accounting,

everybody plays role in
getting that achieved.

Sometimes in the most famous
example of, digitization in,

the finance and accounting world is the
ERP implementation or the system that

integrate the entire
business, from end, to end.

And that would include typically
the costing that we have,

the inventory that we look at, the
analysis, the management accounting,

the financial accounting, the
reporting, the consolidation, of course,

we all know about this,

but what's changing in the
digitization is how do we use PI?

What tools we have in the world?

What's relevant to our industry and
what's relevant to our function?

And how is that gonna help the
company and educate from now

to be competitive and continue
to achieve on strategy?

So digitization is no longer
just, an element of the future,

but actually absolutely is, how
business is being done today.

And it develops, and it
develops in a high speed.

Now you just mentioned, the
function specifically, right?

How it's impacting the industry,

and then it funnels into the individual
function. So accounting and finance,

how did the finance function
specifically play a role in some of the

transformation projects that
you've been a part of so far?

And what would you say are some of the
top enablers when it comes to the finance

function, going through business
transformation, digital transformation,

and along those lines?

Absolutely.

So everything starts from the strategy
of the business and where the business is

heading, and everybody
plays a role in that,

especially finance and accounting
and finance and accounting

always have two hats in the business,

a custodian hat and a co-pilot
hat, looking at the business,

from a custodianship standpoint,

looking at the digitization or the
systems or the strategy being a custodian

means finance and accounting plays such
a critical role in keeping the business

in, strong governance environment,
understanding risk management.

What will we face, during

our, growth revenue invoicing,

risk management to the plan we set
to ourself allocating resources on

budget to certain
initiatives. So custodian,

is very important and everybody in
finance and accounting is a custodian by

default, it cannot be a
custodian or a co-pilot.

The percentage might be different
of playing a role of custodian,

versus a co-pilot.

But everybody has whether in account
receivable or NGL accountant,

or accounting manager, or
a financial controller,

or a CFO or a financial planner,

a co-pilot is a second
hat that everybody has.

Understanding the business
performance is always first step to

drive decisions in a
business to adjust plans, to,

look and review what resources available
resources here can be financial

resources. It can be, budget.
It can be, associates, people,

vendor, customers.

So the co-pilot is always in for finance
and accounting is always in the copilot

seat of different functions.
So, understanding sales,
understanding, marketing,

understanding customer
marketing service level supply,

technology is always a very
important part of the success of,

finance and accounting professional
to play an effective copilot

role.

I would always say that
finance and accounting never

sell, buy anything or make
anything or purchase anything,

but they are the one accountable to
make sure that everything is working

and delivering the right
profit and the right strategy.

So we're always on the co-pilot seat
and making sure that the business is,

under the direct governance
and custodianship.

Yeah, that's a great point. You know,

many of our previous conversations
on many different topics,

always somehow veer towards, you know,
the importance of business partnering,

right. And being the co-pilot
that you're talking about.

So particularly within
business transformation,

obviously it's such a huge responsibility
understanding how the whole business

is transforming, but then the impact
on the financials, right? I mean,

that's the number one responsibility,
as you were saying, you know,

you really oversee all of that sore
within these projects and going through

business transformation,

what are some of the benchmarks
or milestones or things
that the accounting and

finance professionals need to be aware
of, keep their eyes on and, you know,

ensure that the organization is hitting
along this journey, as you said.

Absolutely. From my

personal experience,

I lived in six different countries and
I worked in over 25 countries around

the world.

It's important to understand the
difference in terms of regional accounting

standards,

U.S. GAAP vs German GAAP or
IFRS and not to the top level,

but really having at least
amazing understanding of
how that work and how that

impacts, the role in terms
of, as well, the, industry,

if working as an, accountant, for example,

in a service industry is completely
different than manufacturing.

The way we look at, the general
ledger, the trial balance,

the process we follow,
how we close the month,

how we go through another
process, it's different,

the areas and the focus area might be
different. So if I'm an accountant,

for example, and I'm very
strong in cost accounting,

most probably I would be more
successful in a manufacturing,

in a capital and a growing business
versus a service industry, for example.

So it's important to have clear
match between the capability and the

benchmark for comparing ourselves to.

During business
transformation for example,

we look at our competitor
and the structure,

and we try to set standards for ourself.
So a business that's $200 million,

how large an organization for accounting
should be based on the complexity,

a business that invoice 600 customer
is different than a business that

invoice 100 and the more need
for technology is different,

but it doesn't mean
it's simpler. The lower,

the number is simpler or the larger,
the number it's more complex. Actually,

it's much more into this, which means
what's the mission of the company,

because I can work for example,

for an auditor in the accounting
department of an auditor,

and I am not immediately
interfacing with the customer well,

I'm responsible for the back office.

So that means my focus at that
time would be more in providing a

robust finance operation, a robust
systems, a robust governance, and,

really looking from a
different perspective.

But if I am working for a company
that works in beverages or fast moving

consumer goods, product that
we all buy in grocery stores,

the same job will have more interaction,

direct interaction with
customer in terms of,

collection in terms of cash management,
working capital understanding.

So it's very important
that when we, embark on,

business transformation or a project or
being part of an organization that we

understand where our business sit in
light of the industry we operate in,

the competition, competitive landscape,
as well as the country we operate in.

And if we work on a country or more.

So I really like how you, you know,

structured that response because it
kind of helps me go into the latter part

of this conversation here. You talked
a lot about, you know, the financials,

but then you kind of got into some of
the softer side and some of the people

skills. So I I'd like to, you know,
ask a couple questions in that area,

you know, business transformation

you're putting an entire
team, or, you know,

numerous people in new situations
that may require completely new

skills oftentimes is we were
talking about technology earlier.

So as far as what these team members
need in order to complete their jobs,

how do you go about training
them or bringing them up to

speed, encouraging them that this
is a change that's, you know,

not just useful for the organization, but
it's helpful to them as an individual,

as part of the team as well.

Absolutely. There is absolutely clear two

sides of this. One side
is the functional side.

And one side is the developmental
side as a professional.

If we talk first about
the functional side,

is we talk about the functional
competency the person would have,

and it is kind of like three
level of functional competency.

And I wanna pick an example of a
functional competency, for example,

of an accountant. Or for example,

an accountant would be able to lead a
trial balance is the competency level

required for that person can be beginner,

is the job just require
somebody to understand what's
the structure of the trial

balance? How do I get data and
what do I use, how do I use data,

or is it, really essential? Like,

somebody who's more competent in
dealing with the trial balance and

understanding V classes and really can
do reconciliation or even professional,

which mean really, like kind of
an assistant accounting manager,

an accounting manager,

or controller who must have a professional
level of understanding what trial

balance.

I'm just picking that as an example of
a functional competency that would have

three different levels. So it's
important to look at each other,

each one of us and
understand, the level of,

functional competency on the other
side as, a personal development.

Very important to look at
other competencies like
collaboration with other teams

as a person working as an individual
contributor, being part of a team.

How do you collaborate with a
team? How do you manage conflict?

How do you have conflict management,
for example, drive for results,

business acumen? So
there is the other side,

is there is a long list of competency
as professional that we must have and

possess to be successful,

not only just the functional side and
not only the personal development side,

but both of them comes together to
prepare a person to be successful.

That brings the learning. So
what are we learning at work?

Normally people in accounting
and finance 70%, based on,

studies and statistics and only,
but other businesses as well,

70% of the learning happens on the job.

So the job that that person is doing
must be offering that learning.

And I would ask everybody to think twice,

if the learning is not 70% of that job,

doesn't offer enough learning.
And 20% of the learning,

can happen in, through project. Like

we talked about business transformation
or through assignments or,

changes that we make in our work,

whether it's a system or an additional
objective that we have in a year

and 10% can happen
actually in a classroom,

in a year that can be in a classroom set,

can be in a training settings
or coaching or with mentoring.

So 70 20 10 rule is a very famous rule
for us to understand where we sit as

an individuals and as well,
how successful we're gonna be.

I'm just curious as a quick
follow up as a finance leader,

understanding these
educational needs, essentially.

How conscious are you of it, maybe not
on a daily basis, but a regular basis.

And how do you structure
various opportunities,

learning opportunities for your team
to make sure that they are up to speed?

You know, are you aware of particular
learning benchmarks per se,

anything along those lines.

There is a structured process
to do this in every business.

And there is unstructured
process to achieve that as well.

I wanna start with the structure
process. So every business would have,

a performance management
system that would,

schedule and organize either a monthly,

get together with the line manager or
on a quarterly performance review where

the professional and the line manager
would align on the objective of the year

where we are doing set to competency.

We need to develop a media review is the
most common one that everybody doing in

the midyear and the most famous
one, well is the tier end.

Frequency is important and the quality
is even more important and it's not

more important than the frequency.

So the quality of time
spent on understanding,
developing smart objectives,

being the development areas, the
functional competency required,

the training needed the 70 20 10 rule,

as well as understanding the personal
development as a professional is very,

important.

So that comes and happens under
the umbrella overall of the,

performance management of
the entire business. However,

zooming in into the function itself,
a finance and accounting here,

and the unstructured process,

having a CFO or a financial controller
myself is very, very important.

And it happens constantly,
not on a monthly basis,

not on a quarterly basis.

And that dynamic of open door,

on discussion between everyone of us,

doesn't start only from the
line manager or the leader,

but it starts from everyone
and a talent will always find a

space and opportunity to speak,

take initiatives and talk,

about requirements for
learning and development.

And the question at that point would be
how do we match the right opportunities

we have in the business to their need
and the development of the individuals.

The more we have that fit,

it would be great cause businesses
would have great people and great jobs,

but doesn't mean it's fit.

So I'd like to,

kind of take what we were just
talking about and then go back to the,

the main part of the conversation
being business transformation.

I would assume that as a finance leader,
through learning and development,

the main goal would be to
develop future leaders, right?

And the more leaders you
have in the organization,

the more individuals that can
contribute to strategic decision making

and contribute to these larger
organizational projects.

So within business transformation and
understanding the team you have working

with you, how do you approach strategy,
as part of this project? You know,

I suppose this really could have been
more the first question, you know,

how do you go about approaching
business transformation, but, you know,

to wrap things up and kind of bring
it all together, the projects,

the goals and the people,

how do you formulate that strategic
decision making process for the

organization?

Absolutely. So, there is a,
in terms of leadership, like,

understanding the mission and the purpose
of the organization and the business

is super important for everybody
to be successful in every function,

including accounting and finance,

and every business would have so many
large number of projects running at

the same time. Some of them
are cross-functional and
of them are specific to

a function. So we

may have projects specific to finance
and accounting and a long list of other,

projects or business transformation
project that are cross-functional where

finance play a role,

understanding how the overall
picture of how these project business

transformation and fit together is the
accountability of leaders to explain to

the organization.

And I would encourage everybody who's
not having that clarity to ask and

see clarity.

There's absolutely no issue of asking
question and understanding how is my

project fit with the bigger
picture or how my role help,

the business transformation or the
entire business to be successful?

How do I work with my
cross functional team,

putting this all in perspective and
coming to how do we make decisions and the

right decision and strategically be
clear about what long term looks like is

very important.

There is a saying that those average
strategy and excellence in execution is

better than excellent strategy
and average execution.

And that's the dilemma that every business
in a professional go through every

day, every month, you can have
great plans and great strategy,

but if you can't translate
that strategy into

execution into our
business transformation,

into our project and have
that dynamic of discussion,

what do we need to change and what
clarity we need to add to the project?

It's gonna be a challenge,
not only for professionals,

but for the entire structure. And
with actually question is the,

if the strategy is really the right one,

cause we can have 10
different good strategy.

The question is which one is right.

We can have 10 approaches
for business transformation.

The question is which one is correct
for our business and not only for our

business, which one we are
capable as an organization to do.

So to your question, Mitchell,
about like capability and success,

they are all connected. So the
staffing of the company, the style,

the company follows the
strategy the company has,

the structure and the organization
design that the business has is very

important and that must fit together,

to make sure that business transformation
is successful as well as we,

as professional play a key role in
creating and adding value to the business.

This has been Count Me In,

IMA's podcast providing you with
the latest perspectives of thought

leaders from the accounting
and finance profession.

If you like what you heard and you'd
like to be counted in for more relevant

accounting and finance education,
visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.