Welcome back to Count Me In,

IMA's podcast about all things affecting
the accounting and finance world.

I'm your host Mitch Roshong, and today's
episode is number 147 in our series.

The featured guest speaker in today's
conversation is Jason Whitley.

Jason is the chief financial
officer at Phi Inc.

And he comes to count me in to share
some of the knowledge he's gathered from

his over 30 years of global industry
experience. While talking with my cohost,

Adam, Jason addresses how the CFO can
become an effective business partner and

emphasizes the various skills
one should develop along the way.

To hear more about what an aspiring CFO
needs to do to contribute to sustainable

organizational success,

keep listening as we transition
into the conversation now.

CFOs are now being looked
to for governance, risk
management, business change,

business resilience,
technology advancement, and
the list goes on from there.

Are the inherited skills,

finance and accounting professionals
possess sufficient enough to make

decisions? And if not, what are some of
the crucial skills they need to evolve?

Yeah, no, that's a, that's a great
question. I would say that the, you know,

the CFO role has really transformed
pretty rapidly over the last several years

and it's become, you know,

one of the most difficult jobs in the
organization to do really well because of

the broad scope that you just mentioned.
I know that, you know, myself,

me and my colleagues who aspired
to the role over the years,

but it's really a job that's almost
impossible to fully prepare for and

I don't think the skills
are easily inherited.

You're expected many times to have a
depth of knowledge in several different

areas. The ones you mentioned, including,
you know, treasury, accounting,

risk management tax, IT, controls.

And then on top of all that you need to
really have a good in-depth knowledge of

the business operations. If you want
to be an effective business partner.

And it probably even left out a few areas,

but the point is that it's,
it's really extensive.

It's difficult obviously to have depth
of knowledge in all of those areas.

So inevitably you're going to enter
the job with some, some skill gaps.

And I've seen this in my role.

I've seen it observed in probably every
CFO that I've interacted with in my

career.

And I think the key is really to surround
yourself with a team of folks that are

they're technical experts in these areas
and ensure your weaknesses are really

covered by their strengths.

I think it's also important
to develop a strong network.

I need a network of mentors
and a network of you know,

technology and technical aspects for
service providers that you can really draw

on to supplement your knowledge
and some of the skill gaps that

you have, or just to bounce ideas off,

as the time comes and things are
needed, in that fashion. I guess,

in addition to, and as you
alluded to in your question,

and it's really imperative that you
develop and hone certain skills throughout

your career.

And I think those can be developed
in many different functions

and many different roles, but you
know, you're going to need these,

if you really want to lead the team and
be proactive and addressing the problems

that come up every day in business.

And I think some of those
skills specifically would be,

you know, leadership, analytics,
planning, communication,

and the strategic decision making.

It's really key that you're
developing these kinds of skills

throughout your career.

And those can be things that you
develop in finance and accounting.

It could be in strategy,
business development,

operations, or other
functions, but, you know,

every role should involve
developing, utilizing those skills.

So that you're really ready,

when the time comes to take on all
of the responsibility and scope,

that comes along with the CFO role.

So as I hear you talking about
all the skills that are involved,

one of the things I heard you mention was,

having a good network
surrounding yourself with people,

even people that are smarter than
you, I've heard, a lot of people say,

it's almost like you're being,

almost like you have to be an
effective business partner.

You have to connect with
all these different people.

So we've covered some of the skills
needed to evolve, then what's next?

Yeah, then I think it's, it is
like you just said, you know,

becoming an effective business
partner. I think the, you know,

the way that you do that, you know,

first and foremost is you've got to
have the trust and respect of, you know,

whoever it is. You're partnering
with the CEO, the general manager,

plant manager, department
manager, you know,

whoever it is you're supporting as a
finance leader, this comes through,

you know, basically experienced
performance on the job. You know,

sometimes it develops quickly.
Sometimes it takes some time,

but every one of my CFO
roles has really evolved and

become more impactful, over
time. So it was more impactful,

I would say at the end than it
was at the beginning, as you know,

I've developed trust and, you know,
and experience was gained, you know,

with the individual that I was
partnering with and supporting.

So I think you have to realize you
have to be flexible and, you know,

one approach to partnering is not
necessarily going to be sufficient,

over your entire career.

And I've seen really great
business partnerships and
I've seen some not so great

business partnerships in these
roles. You know, the one, you know,

the ones that didn't work out were
usually sort of doomed from the start.

It was just, you know, a lack
of trust, lack of respect,

or maybe appreciation for the role or
function of the, of the other person.

and that was just something that was
never overcome, for one reason or another.

So I think, you know, as I
mentioned, that's first and foremost,

is that you gain trust and respect.

I think it's also important to know
you can have two really great people,

you know,

it can be world-class in their respective
functions and they still don't have

really an effective partnership because
they can't work together as a team.

So it requires a lot of effort,
you need to share information,

there needs to be, you know,

information and thoughts being
shared on a two-way basis,

you're working towards common
goals and as are said earlier,

you really need to respect
responsibilities and
the focus of each other.

But if you, if you get
all of these in place,

then you can really maximize
the effectiveness of both roles.

I don't think either person can be
highly effective. I think, you know,

they can still be
effective and really good,

but I don't think they can be
highly effective and at their best,

without really the help and
support of the other person.

So it's imperative that the
partnership work well, you know,

for the benefit of that team,

for the company and really
for the organization overall.

Now, Jason, there's something I've heard,
you know, other CFOs, your colleagues,

your,

your peers say and things I've read
that in IMA's research that, you know,

the CFO of an organization must not also
miss not only be able to share insight,

but also lead through foresight. So
when it comes to innovation data value,

how can the CFO navigate the challenges
associated with forecasting and best

position the organization for
sustainable success into the future?

Yeah, that's another
really great question.

I think it's one of the biggest challenges
for the CFO, but I think, you know,

at the end of the day,

the CFO really has a great perspective
with which to lead and position the

organization for success. We're
usually the first to see the numbers.

we've got deep insight into
the operations. We've got
the ability to drill in,

on areas of concern, come back,

make sure the organization
understands them and, you know,

offer solutions as well,

so that things can be dealt with on a
quick and timely basis. I think in the,

right hands, you know, this data and
understanding the business can be,

can be really powerful,

lead to great insights about how to
position the business for the future.

But, you have to have the
right systems in place.

You have to have a
coherent digital strategy,

the plan to track and report, and
seminate the data as well as analyze it.

And that's now the subject for a
whole other podcast. But ultimately,

you know,

having all these things in place can
set the direction for the company or the

strategy for the company.

You can help you change what you're
doing in terms of allocating capital or

resources in a particular area.

You can also recommend something that
has been put forward or as an initiative

for the company that isn't necessarily
working be stopped. I mean,

this last one is one
that I've seen, you know,

finance organization
or finance individuals,

take a lead on many times in many
organizations in many companies.

They're the ones that say, "Hey guys,
it's time to stop doing what we're doing.

It's time to reevaluate or course,

and take a new path or sort of cut our
losses and come up with a new strategy".

I don't think there's that many positions
in the company where you have this

kind of confluence of information,

and it's really powerful in helping
you address challenges. And,

and as I mentioned
earlier, to course correct,

depending on what the business dynamic is.

So I think the CFO has to be
ready to use this information,

gotta be ready to speak up, in
regards to the trends, you know,

the direction of pressure
in the marketplace or the
organization and make sure

everyone understands what the data is
telling them and come up with viable

strategic solutions to address them.

So a lot of accounting
and finance professionals,

their goal is to get to that CFO level.

What skills does a CFO
need? And, you know,

we've talked a lot about
some of those skills already,

but if you're an aspiring
CFO, what, what, you know,

what should you set your sights on?
Where should you develop your skills,

to get, you know, to
get to that next level?

Yeah, a great question. I think, you know,

some of the skills I
mentioned earlier, but let me,

let me dive a little bit deeper into what
I think are really the most important,

and get a little bit more
granular in terms of what,

what you really need to
become an effective CFO,

if you're trying to get to that level.

But one of the ways that I think
about it, is, is a way that my mentor,

you know, 20 years ago, a CFO that I
worked with describing it. So basically,

you know, finance, you have
two different jobs, right?

And they're equally important.

The first one is you gotta make sure
the numbers are right. And this is,

you know, reporting the controls,
processes, systems. I mean,

ultimately you're the single source
of truth for the organization.

And this is where you're going to
spend, you know, 51% of your time,

the other 49% of your time is
to help improve the numbers.

So it's really that simple,
you know, those two things.

And by improving the numbers,

now we're talking about getting
involved with strategy analytics,

restructuring exercises, maybe
a new initiative, you know, M&A,

when that comes up, business
development, cost reduction,

working all of these things with the
operations and the commercial folks.

And I think, you know, the CFO
can lead and dig into both areas,

or the one that,

that can really lead and dig into both
of those areas is going to be the most

highly effective and is going to be
the best advocate for all the key

stakeholders in the firm. I've been
involved in a couple of situations where,

you know, the first one wasn't
in place, you know, the,

the control aspect to it and
making sure the numbers are right.

And we spent massive amounts of
time putting the house in order.

And it became the only job we
had, for some period of time.

So we had to build the foundation
through people, processes, and systems,

so that we could really move on to the
more value added activities of the job,

which is the second piece
that I mentioned. I think the,

the other piece is that there
needs to be complete transparency.

So you have to develop
the skill for, you know,

putting out not only the good news,

but the bad news and make sure
that there aren't any surprises.

I used to have a former CEO that said,
you know, bad news doesn't age well,

and I think that that adage applies
to every organization I've been in.

You don't want to hold up the
dissemination of the bad news because the

situation could get worse.

A lot of times they don't
resolve themselves favorably.

And if you can get the information
out there quickly enough,

you can bring to bear all the
resources of the organization on the

problem. And I think the
key for the CFO, here,

is to the set the tone at the top.

So the organization falls this
line of thinking, constantly.

A couple other points: I think you
need to build organizational rapport.

It's good to have strong
partnerships with all of the

executive staff members,
or the extended staff. And,

and these will change depending
on the job that you're in,

but learning how to develop
organizational rapport,

is important because you need
to be a trusted resource for,

for all of those stakeholders.

And you can't really have the impact you
want to have in an organization unless

you've got that rapport.
And if you do have it,

and your impact is going to be much
greater than it would be otherwise.

And I think, lastly,

I would say you just need to
approach the position with a balanced

viewpoint. Don't be too conservative,
don't be too aggressive in your approach.

You'd never want to approach, you know,

an accounting problem or our
forecast now with that mindset,

for instance, because you'll
end up being, over time,

if you continually do that,

you'll end up being labeled and
you'll continually get second guessed.

So in an example of a forecast, I mean,
when you put together a commitment,

you want to have balanced lists of
risk and opportunities to discuss

when you talk about what
the number is going to be.

This ensures that everyone
understands what you've put in, right?

That it potentially
could be an issue, right.

But you've talked about and learned
how to mitigate those issues.

And you've talked about opportunities
that maybe aren't there,

that you're going to work on, to make
sure that they benefit the organization.

So you're trying to get to the right
answer for the reporting for, you know,

for our business forecast or, or any
particular problem, regardless of the,

you know, the accepted practice or maybe
the potential organizational impact,

you have to be able to do that. And
over time, these forecast, terminology,

these beats and messes, they
should balance out, you know,

solid reasoning for your
decisions along the way,

that's important to get your decisions
or your recommendations accepted by doing

that and having this,

I think it's important basically to
make sure you've got a strong reputation

along these lines, within the
organization or within the company.

So as we wrap up our conversation,

do you have any thoughts on the
role of the CFO and building their

organizations, as we
look toward the future?

Yeah, I do. I think overall,

you have to be flexible in your
approach to the organization and to

the business partnership that we
talked about earlier. I think,

you don't want to be flexible when
it comes to your approach to ethics,

controls and compliance, but, you know,
as the scene goes in career progression,

what got you here, won't get you there.

these are kinds of things that you need
to think about as a CFO. And when I,

when I talk about, compliance, I
think it's pretty clear what, I mean,

there's really no room for
flexibility here. You need to possess,

an exhibit to the organization
and impeccable ethics.

You gotta be strong because there's going
to be issues that you're gonna face,

on compliance or controls, or, you
know, you're asked to push the limits.

These just aren't areas
where you can compromise,

but on your approach to the business
and business partnership, I would say,

you know, every dynamic, you
know, a CEO and a CFO is,

is different. You're going to need
to adapt your operating style,

many times to work most
effectively with, you know,

see if a CEO or general
manager or department manager,
depending on, you know,

whatever the case may be. So your
principles and focus can be the same,

but your approach to the job,
is going to be different.

And sometimes just in order to
get the same result, you know,

but ultimately that's what you're all
aligned towards maximizing the strategic

value of the enterprise.

So I think flexibility is key
there and it's also a key in

addressing business problems
and building an organization.

More directly answering your question,
that's capable of thriving in the future.

So if a finance organization can
sort of learn and grow along with

the company, and the
organization to be, you know,

make sure they continue to be relevant,

and capable of helping the group with
strong analytics and strategic decision

making, then they're going to be hugely
valuable to the, to the organization.

This has been Count Me In:

IMA's podcast providing you
with the latest perspectives
of thought leaders from

the accounting and finance profession.

If you like what you heard and you'd
like to be counted in for more relevant

accounting and finance education,

visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.